223 heavys

[Bottom Fodder]

I’ve always heard Reloader 15 and 203b was basically the same and were good with 223 with heavy’s
But from what I’ve seen neither list loads with 80 gr. 77 is the heaviest listed? I have both and trying to save my Varget for other thing. Any body use these or other powders than Varget with 80’s?
Short barrel bolt gun 223 1/7 twist

 

[rfwind]

I use RL 15 and Varget for .223 with 69, 77, and 80 gr SMK's. I can't tell any accuracy differences but it's sometimes difficult for me to have enough space for the heavier Varget loads without a long drop tube.

 

[Ned Ludd]

H4895 has always been my "go-to" powder for 80+ gr bullets in the .223 rem. Other choices might be Vihtavuori N140/N135, or IMR 8208 XBR/4166, as I know shooters that have gotten all those powders to work well. There are a few other powders in the burn rate range around Varget/H4895 that should work well also, including Re15, but I have no direct experience, or even word of mouth info about those. Given your comment about a short barrel, I'd tend to lean slightly toward the faster end of that powder burn rate range, but any of them could potentially work well. These days, obtaining and testing several different powders is not the easy thing it once was.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Thanks guy I was expecting “if it’s not listed don’t do it” Ned I have a little 4895 but trying to find some I have a couple pounds of, I have none of the others you listed, rfwind I load a couple with mid range load for 77’s and will ease up from there until I see pressure sign or good accuracy
Thanks to you both for your input

 

[jelenko]

Both 2520 and TAC work well with 77's and 80's.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I have two powders I use for 223. Shooters world and VArget. 22.2 gr of Shooters world 062 and 21.8 gr pf Varget. Both shoot 80 gr Berger target bullets in 1/4 in groups consistently if I do my part.

 

[Dave Zander]

I'm using N140 with 80.5 and 85.5 Bergers. 23.5 grains in a Lapua case with the 85.5 running in the 2750 area, 2820 with the 80.5. I'm getting good accuracy and cleaner than Varget. I am shooting the 85.5's out to 1000 yards on steel. I'm running a 28" Barrel and 205M's for primers. I've yet to try any 90's yet.
N140 is pretty hard to find , not as hard as H4895 though.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Thanks guy I was expecting “if it’s not listed don’t do it” Ned I have a little 4895 but trying to find some I have a couple pounds of, I have none of the others you listed, rfwind I load a couple with mid range load for 77’s and will ease up from there until I see pressure sign or good accuracy
Thanks to you both for your input

Unfortunately, H4895 seems to be rarer than Hen's Teeth these days. An additional consideration for the other powders for which you have more/available would be the specific purpose of the load you're wanting to work up. Even more specifically, what is the temperature-sensitivity of those powders, and will that affect your intended use? I generally tend toward single base powders that are fairly resistant to temperature-depend velocity variance. You may give up a bit of velocity as compared to many double-base powders, but [within reason] that's not really as important for the shooting I do. It's actually a bit more complicated than that as there are now some newer double-base powders available that are coated to reduce temperature-sensitivity that really seem to work well.

In any event, if you're not planning on shooting long strings of fire such as in F-Class matches, or potentially on different days or times of year where there might be significant temperature changes, I'd be less concerned about the temperature-sensitivity and more concerned with powder availability and precision. Unless temperature/velocity is a big concern, I'd probably start with whatever powders that you have in sufficient amounts in the general Varget burn rate range and see how they look. If temperature is a big concern, I'd add that to the list of factors by which you make your selection. The good news is that you have a pretty wide range of choices. Availability will likely be the biggest concern initially, and you can then add in whatever other factors you deem important in order to whittle down the list of powders you will actually test.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Thanks all
Ned the purpose of the 223 is shooting half MOA dots a 3,4,5 and 600 5 dots per plate in 223 class and save the Varget for the 6BrX Striker for 1k F class and depending may shoot the 223 Striker in FTR mid range F Class that I now also shoot the BrX in. So two matches a month can eat up my powder supply. We have cut our f class match which or non sanction match back to 2 20 shot relays to save supply’s

 

[Jeff Porter]

Start at 23.5gr Re15 and work up to 24.5 or max pressure in your gun for an 80 gr SMK or Berger 80.5 or 80 VLD.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Thanks Jeff, I had loaded some at 23.5 and 24 if no problem there was going up a 1/10 at time until hit Pay dirt or pressure going to be a few days before try them out
Thanks again

 

[OldManTA]

I was told by a now departed friend who was very knowledgeable that Norma 203B and Reloader 15 are virtually the same; the difference being that the Norma powder uses rags as a source of charcoal and the Reloader uses wood. I have used the two interchangeably in the 6mmBR Norma with the Berger 105 VLD hunting with good results
Tom Alves

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Thanks old man that is what I’ve heard, I’ve got some of both and that’s why I’m hoping I can use it for this project

 

[Superjet]

Give CFE 223 a try if you can live with some temp instability. Was very impressive in my 7 twist with 80.5 Fullbores.

 

[65swede]

Give CFE 223 a try if you can live with some temp instability. Was very impressive in my 7 twist with 80.5 Fullbores.

+1
I'm shooting CFE223 at Hornady max load with 75gr eldm @ 2.45 COAL in an 8 twist. 100° AZ heat and seeing low ES and very nice accuracy.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

+1
I'm shooting CFE223 at Hornady max load with 75gr eldm @ 2.45 COAL in an 8 twist. 100° AZ heat and seeing low ES and very nice accuracy.

Thanks I do have some CFE223 will give a try as well what primers you using

 

[65swede]

Thanks I do have some CFE223 will give a try as well what primers you using

GM205M,
looking at my notes
Norma brass ES=16, SD=9.23
Lapua brass ES=19, SD=7.64

Fairly Typical Group - Lapua


Pull one of these off occasionally - Norma

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Little up date on this project: the goal was to find something other Varget and CCI 450’s to use in 16” barrel with 80gr SMK. That had I had on hand. After 3 range days I have narrowed it down to 1 powder H322 which is good because I have 5 lbs on hand! From what I’ve read it’s not highly recommended for heavies but works good for my gun producing 1/2 in 5 shot groups now I know that’s not bench rest groups but this not a custom built benchrest rifle but a other a aftermarket 16” barrel it’s bone stock savage Striker with 2lb trigger. Right now both CCI br and RP 7 1/2 primers with the H322 have actually out shot Varget / 450’s. and the 7 1/2 are producing better groups than the Br primers with BR’s give a little more speed but a higher ES and SD but if you read the thread on ES and SD in 223 that’s a challenge in its self LOL. After one more range day I will make the call on primers then start tweaking both the load and seating dept and may work on the ES and SD, but right now because this will be completing against 223 rifles they are facing the same obstacles that I am. The biggest plus is the match this gun is intended for I have to drive 5 hrs. Round trip stay all day and shoot the Brx 20 rounds, but now I can shoot in the 223 class and then shoot the BrX in open kinda makes the trip worth it rambling on a rainy day
thanks for your input

 

[otnot]

With Varget so hard to find I started experimenting with IMR4064 which I have 16 pounds of. I had to quit using Lapua brass to get enough volume and luckily I have a long throated barrel and even then the 24.2 grains was a little crunchy, but I was able to get 2750 with 90 gr. bullets.

 

[BillC79]

I am now using AR-Comp instead of Varget with my Service Rifle 600 yard loads:
Berger 80.5 FB; 22.5gr AR-Comp; cci41 primer; 2.42" COAL; 2676 fps muzzle velocity