P Dog 1st hunt need help on what to bring

[BobbyJ]

I have another thread on what gun to bring but then started to think I need more than that. I'm in Michigan and have 3 buddies that want to try a PD 2 day shoot someplace. Don't know where or what to bring exactly. I can tell you what we have now.

- Dillon XL 650 with Dillon 223 dies + all the prep stuff wet tumblers etc.
- 3000 rounds of range brass
- 2 pounds (left) of CFE 223
- 1,000 CCI 400s
- 2,000 CCI 450s
- 1,000 Rem 7 1/2
- (would need to buy more primers at like 85.00 box of 1,000)
Current Guns
- Two .17 cal WSMs Maybe 1,000 rounds of 20 gr rimfire ammo
- many 22 Lr rimfires
- one Ruger .204 pencil barrel 1/10 twist (maybe 100 rounds of ammo)
- one .223 bolt with 12x scope
- I have 3 Japan 2010 B Elite 6-24x Varmint scopes
- two SWFA 3-15x Scopes
- 1 SWFA fixed 10x scope
- 2 Argos 6-24x scopes
- 3 16" Colt 6920s only 4x Acogs though.
All the rest of my guns are pistols, military WW2 stuff or big calibers 450 BM, shotguns etc.

I'm going to be buying some new stuff not sure what. Get a 24" upper for the ARs like a 223 or even a 20 practical (i've never heard of one till yesterday) I like the best bang for the buck so I'm not buying a bunch of SAKOs don't even bring those up

I want to sort of keep it simple so was thinking just bring all .223 as I can just reload and crank out 3,000 rounds and be done and I could buy ammo there if we run out or something. Or... go with 20 practical for a little better performance over .223 but that might open a can of worms since I don't know much about that caliber other than its .204-like and I could use my current 223 brass.
So figure at least 3 people going what do we need?

- Rounds? 800 each for 2 days?
- Guns? - are the 22 rimfires or .17 wsms worth taking? Don't know how many shots 50-100 yards you even get on P Dogs might be a waste
- If all center fire is one gun each and maybe 1 extra enough? I was thinking one .223 each and maybe 1 backup gun. But maybe its a 2 gun each type thing dunno never been Pdogging
- Where to go? - No idea which places are the best for Pdog hunts. But sort of want a place that specializes and provides meals range etc.
- Extra gun - I could see us each getting one more new gun or upper. .223 or .20 practicle, Bolt or AR upper? If AR upper what barrels are accurate and what twist? I'm thinking if .223 would go 24" 1/12 shoot 53 gr Hornady or if Bolt maybe a CZ Varmint in .223. Only reason I'm sticking with .223 is I have brass, press and dies. If I found a good deal on pre loaded ammo I could do that too.
- Spotting scope worth it? I have a few of those old Bushnell Star gazer in 24x
- Video? I could get some kind of phone adapter for the spotting scopes
- bullets? if .223 thinking the 53gr as a do all would need to shoot decent out of all guns if .204 (20 prac) probably 39gr? or 40gr Vmax out of 1/10 or 1/11 twist?

Drive or fly there? I'm thinking flying might be a hassle with guns involved. How do people transport them so thinking it might be a long drive just to get there from Michigan.

Any help on what to bring, where to go and what type of guns and extra stuff to bring would be appreciated. Just trying to prevent the post trip stuff where you go "Shit I wish I brought this or that or went to a diff place etc"

 

[5spd]

Fyi, all I use is a Savage bolt gun I assembled, 24" 1/14" tw. Bbl.
I only use 1 rig, never trade off as I made a barrel wrap and keep it wet and this the barrel stays cool, warm.

Bullets are all 50g as in vmax, nbt, tnt line.
50g jsp bullets when I can't get the others.
Plan on a minimum of 300 rounds a day, good towns and you may run 500 easily.
No need to over think it.
Good hat, water, table to shoot off of.

 

[JSH]

I wouldn’t spend a dime on AR.
You want a rifle.
Find a Savage in 223.
JARD Trigger if not an accu trigger.
Choate Stock and a 25lb sack of 8 or 9 shot to fill every empty space.
Order a 10 or 12 twist zero free bore barrel, full bull, at least 26”
50-53 grain Vmax +CFE223
Use the Elite scope you have

Now you have a25-40lb rifle, no spotter needed.
Let it cool while shooting 204.

As mentioned ^^^^^^ don’t over think it.

Got money to spare, buy a suppressor.

An AR allows you to miss faster. I have a sub MOA Bushmaster I refuse to bring myself, it has an appetite that can bring on bad habits if there is no “adult supervision”.;-)

 

[BobbyJ]

Fyi, all I use is a Savage bolt gun I assembled, 24" 1/14" tw. Bbl.
I only use 1 rig, never trade off as I made a barrel wrap and keep it wet and this the barrel stays cool, warm.

Bullets are all 50g as in vmax, nbt, tnt line.
50g jsp bullets when I can't get the others.
Plan on a minimum of 300 rounds a day, good towns and you may run 500 easily.
No need to over think it.
Good hat, water, table to shoot off of.

Well I have time so overthinking comes EZ

 

[ben lurkin]

You only have enough powder for 500 rounds or so of 223.

I’m the opposite of JSH; I like my Sako L461 that weighs in at about 6#. The dogs where I’m at are in small towns so 10-20 shots per stop is all you get. I sometimes walk around and shoot so lugging a 25# gun around isn’t conducive to my style of varminting. I tend to be a bit minimalist so 10x binoculars, a lightweight shooting table, a stool, and a couple of rifles is what I roll with; a 222/223/204 gets most used.

 

[BobbyJ]

I wouldn’t spend a dime on AR.
You want a rifle.
Find a Savage in 223.

Savage makes a bunch of 223s
axis
110
25 LIGHTWEIGHT VARMINTER
12 BVSS
12 LRPV

26" barrels super top heavy. Which model are you referring to?

 

[JSH]

I look more at what I get from a donor than actual model. I have bought some rigs in the past, all I used was the action and replaced everything else. Others I have used every thing but the barrel.
Some years back I could buy a used rig for cheap. A lot of folks have seen what you can done with a Savage, now a new action and trigger can be the same price or cheaper than what used sell for.
I like SS stagger feed actions or single shot.

As to the comment about opposite of me, going light, the OP already stated he had a pencil barrel 204 and the 17WSM would be a fine rig for walking.
I have zero interest in walking around in dog towns to any extent. That doesn’t mean I don’t have or am not interested in such. Fleas, mites, serpents, cactus, rodent fecal matter I don’t make a habit of intentionally being in the middle of it.

A heavy gun that you can see ALL of your impacts with no spotter opens up a new world for a lot of folks. I have seen a lot of folks say they have a heavy gun, yet after a few rounds out of one of my ugly Choate stocked rifles the supper topic comes up how to put one together.

 

[Dgd6mm]

A good range finder or better yet a good pair of ranging binoculars.
2 -.223 rifles 1 - 6br rifle, barrel cooling apparatus of some sort or water and a wrap like 5spd said.
In a perfect world 1000 rounds per rifle and I would be bringing ammo home.
I've shot them in prone off my Harris bipod, used a tripod, and off my bench.
We have taken plenty of other gear that never got used.
We did Kansas in June and Wyoming in September. Drove from North Florida.
Floppy hat, wicking long sleeve shirt, Columbia nylon cargo pants.

The last 3 weeks here I've been cooling my 22-250 with water and a towel every 10 rounds.
It's amazing how much the ambient temperature keeps the barrel warm here in North Florida.

 

[markT]

Savage PTA / 6 BR / 87 gr Vmax / Choate Stock with steel added to fore end / Porsche 944 scissor jack for front rest rapid and accurate elevation adjustment. Rear bag never changes / rest can slide left and right.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

7000 grains per pound of powder, your loads do the math. Ammo needs depend on how much the town(s) have been shot and the distance/wind. When I shoot low or no pressure dogs with a suppressor, I don't shoot as much ammo. Because not many misses inside 250 yards. The 17wsm,22 mag is a lot of fun, when hitting a fresh town(and poking a few out the window). Good rangefinder,stay hydrated, snacks, hard cases for the rifles. I usually take an extra scope and of course cleaning equipment, make sure your products can't leak. I take my ecaller(only because I have it) with prairie dog "all clear", let it play especially during lunch, shoot a few more close ones. This year I shot my Sightmark Wraith on my 204R,suppressed, have some great aerial recordings. It also worked well recording other shooters action, easier than my phone skope/spotting scope.

 

[CharlieNC]

I want to try a PD hunt some day and will definitely take my 17 HMR, excellent ballistics for a rimfire and relatively low cost ammo. Wouldn't want to shoot out a center fire barrel and load thousands of rounds, but have it available for longer shots.

 

[Sundown]

A long sleeve light weight T shirt! Trust me!

 

[6MMsteve]

go have fun don't over think it, having a good trigger is key for long shots

 

[6MMsteve]

A long sleeve light weight T shirt! Trust me!

yes being out in the sun all day and gettin burned will ruin everything, lots of sunscreen or light long clothes, Good one

Sundown<<<​

 

[K9TXS]

Clothing & bug suggestions.

Where I shoot, it is wide open and you need some kind of sun protection. I don't use any lotions for sun protection any longer.

Pants - light colored Carhartt pants. The pants I use are light colored, shows dirt easily, but who cares. I haven't had any issue with these pants at all.

T-Shirt - Free Fly. I prefer the long sleeve shirt in a light color. The shirts are a little pricey, but they are really good at sun protection and they are breathable. When I hunt, it is usually for three days. I use the same shirt every day and wash it every evening when I shower. Wring it out and hang it up and it will be dry for the next day with no wrinkles. There are several different styles of these shirts by Free Fly to choose from. It's a very good investment.

Neck covering - I prefer the style that's goes over the head like a Gator. You can pull it up as high as you need. I bring mine up just past the cheeks and my sunglasses cover the rest. Very easy to use and works well against the sun.

Hat - Any wide brim hat of your choosing. I have 2 one from Tilley and one from Newcastle. The Tilley hat is always in the truck and use it whenever I need a hat for whatever reason. The Newcastle hat works really well with over the head hearing protection. Just make sure your muffs are adjustable, otherwise it doesn't work well.

Bug Spray - I only use one bug spray and that's for my pants and socks, Sawyer. I've read lots of pros and cons on this product, but it really works well for me. When I'm at home and starting to get my gear ready for the trip, I use the Sawyer on my pants and field socks. I haven't had any problems with skin rash or any type of bugs getting on me. I don't spray my shirt since I'm not walking thru the bush and I never shoot prone.

I don't care to use conventional sun screens and bug lotions or sprays. By the time you get all that stuff on you smell awful. As you start to sweat, you smell worse and it all runs into your eyes.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Forgot definitely spray your pant legs(outside) and boots with a permethrin product. Kills chiggers, ticks and fleas. I buy concentrate and mix to 13%. I treat my grouse woods clothes and the dogs brush vest. Treat a ground cloth if you think you will spend time prone, sage is a problem for prone shooting. I wear a long sleeve fishing shirt(with hood).

 

[powderbrake]

5 SPD is an experienced prairie dog hunter, he gives good advice.

I have been hunting pd's for many years, missed one trip due to covid in the last 25 years. I am going to give you some things to think about, and questions to answer.

For your info, our regular group of 4 shoots (1) 22-250 Savage 12LRPV, (2) 204's, a 12 BVSS and a 12 LRPV, and I shoot a custom (action, trigger, barrel and stock) in 6BR. We each have a backup gun, in case the original gun fails. My backup is a 22-250.

I am going to recommend you spend as little as possible on new guns until you have made at least one PD trip. You are set up for 223, but you have a short barreled AR15. What is your bolt gun, make and caliber)?
If it is 223, make that your primary gun, and use your AR as backup, and/or get a varmint upper in 223 for your AR., or use your 204 Ruger as back up. I do not believe that an AR is necessary , ie, the ability to shoot again very quickly. I shoot single shot bolt guns only.

Put your best 24 power scopes on both guns. More scope power is better.

Will your rifles shoot within a half minute of angle? You will need that to consistently hit those 300 yard shots, which I believe is near the limit for a 223. (particularly in the windy conditions that PD's live in).

Do you have a ballistics calculator on your smartphone? If not, get one. Do you know how many clicks "up" you need to go from 100 yards to a 300 yard PD? ( 17 clicks , or 13" for a 55 gr 223) (30 clicks or 31" for 400 yards)

Knowing the range is important, so a pair of Ranging Binoculars would be a good investment in the Future, not now, because they are so expensive, and at that time you may want a set with bluetooth to drop data to a ballistics program. Now a monocular rangefinder would be helpful. Check ebay.

Typically you either set up a rotary table, with a front and rear rest, and shoot either a half or all day at a bigger PD town. Or you move from smaller town to smaller town, and shoot off the ground on mats. You can sneak up on a smaller town and shoot a few before they all dive back down into their holes, and the range is shorter. From the table, all the close ones (150 yards or less) dove down in their holes as you were setting up the tables, so you shoot the longer ones.

Our group shoots off rotary tables, and we spend a lot of time in a camp chair with a cold beverage, waiting for the PD's to come back out of their holes. We do not have a huge round count. We also do not keep a kill count. I realize that is not what you want at this time, so you will need to move to new towns frequently. That will depend on the outfitter that you use.

As Dgd6mm said" floppy hat, long sleeve wicking shirt, nylon cargo pants. I wear jeans, and a neck and ear cover with a baseball cap https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QPVZS4K?
ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1 also lots of sunscreen, bug spray.

DO NOT touch a dead prairie dog, they carry the plague, which is transmitted by their fleas.

Take a target and an empty cardboard box (folded flat for the trip). Tape up the box, load with some rocks,( so it doesn't blow away) and set it at 100 yards so you can find your zero setting on your scope. I recommend that once you find your zero, before you go hunting, you mark it on a piece of paper taped to your stock.



I hope this gives you some info that you wanted. I also suggest that you select an outfitter and ask him what he recommends. A place that provides room and meals and a guide will likely have tables for you to use.

 

[drover]

I have been a PD shooter for many decades and in my experience here is my recommendation

KISS principle - Keep it simple, stupid (KISS) is a design principle which states that designs and/or systems should be as simple as possible. Wherever possible, complexity should be avoided in a system—as simplicity guarantees the greatest levels of user acceptance and interaction.

Caliber - 223 ammo
Reason 1 - plentiful brass and bullets available and as you mentioned should you run out they can be found most places
Reason 2 - full length size your brass so that it will fit the tightest chamber of the rifles you are taking, that way you will always have ammo that works in either rifle and not having to deal with different ammo for each rifle
Reason 3 - for consistent hits most of your shots will likely be between 100 to 300 yards, longer than that your hit/miss ratio will go down

Bullet - 40 grain Nosler BT or Hornady V-Max.
Reason - Both give excellent accuracy and good explosive effect and when loaded to around 3700 fps the drop/drift mirrors a 22/250 with a 50 gr bullet without the added recoil and barrel heat.
Sight your rifle 1" or 1-1/2" high at 100 yards and you can hold on the PD all the way out to 300 yds

Scope - I would use the Bushnell Elite 6-24
Reason - good optic quality that it is less tiring to your eyes
Reason 2- the 6-24 gives the option of increasing/decreasing magnification as needed due to mirage

Rifles - at least two 223's so that one can switch rifles to let one cool if you happen to get into some really heavy shooting. Preferably one should be a varmint weight and the other at least a heavier sporter contour or another varmint weight rather than a pencil barrel

Amount of ammo - at least 1000 rounds of 223 since you will find that a 400 round day is a pretty big day in a PD town. Depending on the town you may find yourself quite a while between shots or having to move to go to another town which can use up more of your time than you think

17 WSM - it may get some shooting time depending on the town and how much it has been shot and also whether it is windy but realistically it doesn't cost anymore to shoot your 223 per round and the 223 is a lot more effective. If you drive then one more rifle will not be that much of an issue but if you fly then you have excess baggage and weight charges to deal with

Binoculars - the best you can get
Reason - you will spend a lot of time looking and poor quality binos can give eye-strain quickly

Where to go - that is a poser. If you don't hire a guide or at least have a site recommended from someone reliable you will spend most of your 2 days trying to find a shootable town unless you are lucky

Good luck and enjoy yourself - you will have a lot better feel for what you should or should not have done after this trip

drover

 

[BobbyJ]

You only have enough powder for 500 rounds or so of 223.

I’m the opposite of JSH; I like my Sako L461 that weighs in at about 6#. The dogs where I’m at are in small towns so 10-20 shots per stop is all you get. I sometimes walk around and shoot so lugging a 25# gun around isn’t conducive to my style of varminting. I tend to be a bit minimalist so 10x binoculars, a lightweight shooting table, a stool, and a couple of rifles is what I roll with; a 222/223/204 gets most used.

Yes I will be buying new powder. If CFE 223 is good with 24" and light bullets I'll get more of that. But I saw Ramshot TAC is cheaper by like 90.00 per 8 pounds might try that.

 

[BobbyJ]

I am going to recommend you spend as little as possible on new guns until you have made at least one PD trip. You are set up for 223, but you have a short barreled AR15. What is your bolt gun, make and caliber)?

The bolt 223 is my buddies I think its a old ruger 20" barrel not a bull barrel
204 Ruger is a bolt 22" Thompson
The .204 is around 1/2 MOA
Not sure on the .223

If it is 223, make that your primary gun, and use your AR as backup, and/or get a varmint upper in 223 for your AR., or use your 204 Ruger as back up. I do not believe that an AR is necessary , ie, the ability to shoot again very quickly. I shoot single shot bolt guns only.

For me the .204 pencil is backup my primary might be buying a AR bull Barrel 24" 1/9 or 1/12 twist. The cost is less than buying a brand new gun like a Tikka or Remington 700 etc.

I might not even set the AR up for semi auto. Just plug gas port hole and manually feed with charging handle one at a time like a bolt. Not sure which upper is the best bang for the buck. Most seem to be 1/8 which I don't want. I'm thinking 1/9 to 1/12 twist.

My Colts are 1/7 twist 16" model 6920s. 1 to 1.5 MOA range. I've not really tried to squeek more out of them, hard to group at 100 yards with 4x Acogs. I just made up some 69gr rounds to see how they do. Maybe could be a backup.

Will your rifles shoot within a half minute of angle? You will need that to consistently hit those 300 yard shots, which I believe is near the limit for a 223. (particularly in the windy conditions that PD's live in).

The only guns that can shoot under 1 MOA are my .204 and my .17 wsm and the WSM can toss flyers due to the rim fire ammo quality. WSM might be ok to 200 yards

Do you have a ballistics calculator on your smartphone? If not, get one. Do you know how many clicks "up" you need to go from 100 yards to a 300 yard PD? ( 17 clicks , or 13" for a 55 gr 223) (30 clicks or 31" for 400 yards)

Yes I have many ballistics programs. I tend to use hold overs rather than clicks, I use to shoot alot of PCP pellet guns (100 yards with them is like 1000 yards with a centerfire) Once I know the distance I just use the milldots hold for wind and drop. I would probably print my drop chart and if it was a 13" drop I would just aim 1 dog high and 1.5 dogs left (wind) sometimes I go by feel sometimes I use the milldots.
My scopes will be zeroed to 200 yards. Then its good -+ 1.5" out to 230 yards or so.
100 yards - its 1.25" high
200 yards - dead on
230 yard - 1.3" low
300 yards - 6.25" low
Thats with a 53gr at 3300 fps.
I could use clicks if I used my SWFA but I'll be using my Elites with milldots.

Knowing the range is important, so a pair of Ranging Binoculars would be a good investment in the Future, not now, because they are so expensive, and at that time you may want a set with bluetooth to drop data to a ballistics program. Now a monocular rangefinder would be helpful. Check ebay.

I have some 10x binocs and Spotting scopes and a range finder. Never tried Range Binocs, sound nice.

Typically you either set up a rotary table, with a front and rear rest, and shoot either a half or all day at a bigger PD town. Or you move from smaller town to smaller town, and shoot off the ground on mats. You can sneak up on a smaller town and shoot a few before they all dive back down into their holes, and the range is shorter. From the table, all the close ones (150 yards or less) dove down in their holes as you were setting up the tables, so you shoot the longer ones.

I just have a basic fold up table I used at Pellet gun competition and Bags.

DO NOT touch a dead prairie dog, they carry the plague, which is transmitted by their fleas.

Agree, I have no intention of even walking to them to see the impacts. Cesspool of germs why chance getting sick.

I hope this gives you some info that you wanted. I also suggest that you select an outfitter and ask him what he recommends. A place that provides room and meals and a guide will likely have tables for you to use.

Thanks for the info appreciate it!