223 loaded long for F-TR and High Power

[CacheCropp]

Have been toying with the idea of building a rifle intended for both High Power Match Rifle and F-TR.

What is the longest mag length for 223 bolt actions? Is it the same as 308 AICS pattern mags? 2.950” or so?

Im trying to decide between 223 and 308 in a bolt action, 18# rifle that could do both competitions and the longer 223 bullets interest me.

Is 223 commonly used in same rifle for both? Or do most people pick one competition or the other?

 

[Tarmacshooter]

Do you have a question or just making a statement?

 

[CacheCropp]

Do you have a question or just making a statement?

I was editing the question for a minute.

 

[Tarmacshooter]

We don’t mag load in FTR.

 

[gme]

in my experience the longer/tighter freebore chambers we use for Palma and F class rifles are not as well suited for an XTC rifle, for reliable feeding in a bolt gun you want a minimum COAL of about 2.350 (which is about .100 longer than SAAMI) it's easy to run 80's through the mag on a bolt gun and be plenty long for reliable feeding with a Wylde (or similar) chamber

 

[CNC-Dude]

A .223 is considerably shorter than a .308, so I'd expect their respective mags to reflect that as well. But as has been mentioned, single feeding is the norm.

 

[CacheCropp]

Ok, I understand. Even if I found a solution for a longer feeding 223 mag, it probably wouldn’t get very close to the fps and BC of the dedicated F-TR rifles.

I looked at me of my 308 AICS mags and the 223 cartridge is swimming in there. Don’t think it could be easily modified to feed reliably.


Thanks for the replies.

 

[Ned Ludd]

FWIW - there are apparently some types of mags that allow feeding of .223 Rem rounds loaded with heavies such as the 90 VLD that are much longer than you might expect, possibly even to the 2.500"-2.600" OAL range. Before you ask, I don't recall exactly what brand they were. It's just information I have come across at shooting forums over the years that attracted my interest as I have a couple .223 Rem F-TR rifles set up to shoot the 90s. I don't actually need such a setup as both my F-TR .223s are single-feed only. Check around and you can probably find out what mags/setup were used, or perhaps someone that is actually using one will chime in.

Another possibility if you're willing to settle for using a slightly lighter bullet such as one of the various ~80 gr .224" bullets available is modifying the lip of an existing mag normally considered too short for such long loaded rounds to feed properly. You might gain a couple tenths of an inch in allowed feeding OAL by such an approach, but it probably won't work with the [much] longer 90s.

For shooting out to 1000 yd, the notion of using a .223 Rem is not new. I have done it many times shooting 90 VLDs, as have many others. It is possible to shoot very, very good scores using a .223 Rem with heavies. The issues in favor of using such a setup are the inherent precision of the .223 Rem cartridge loaded with heavies, and the relative ease of gun handling. However, such a setup is not without drawbacks. For most of us that have done this, it is difficult to reliably obtain velocity ES values with .223 Rem loads under about 20-25 fps, which is just about double the ES you can readily obtain in a .308 load with 200.20Xs without excessive effort. At 600 yd, an ES as high as even 30 fps is not likely to kill your score, but it will at 1000 yd, which is why you see noticeably fewer .223s at a 1000 yd F-TR match. The .308 Win clearly has more recoil and uses almost twice the amount of powder per loaded round as a .223 Rem. Nonetheless, it can be loaded with very good precision using available bullets with markedly higher BCs than found in the .224" heavies. I'm not advocating for you to go one way or the other, just mentioning a few considerations involved with the use of both.

 

[rcgill]

FWIW
I use the same reamer for both Palma and XTC (.194 freebore).
It will shoot Berger 77 OTM at 2.24” and Berger 90 VLD at 2.67.
I use R5 magazines.
Bob

 

[Jeff Porter]

FWIW
I use the same reamer for both Palma and XTC (.194 freebore).
It will shoot Berger 77 OTM at 2.24” and Berger 90 VLD at 2.67.
I use R5 magazines.
Bob

Bob are your shooting a gain twist or 6.5 twist for the 90’s ?

 

[CacheCropp]

Thank you Ned, for the very detailed and helpful answer.

 

[XTR]

Chambering and feeding aside, Shooting F-TR you will want a minimum 28” barrel, 30“ is the standard, and generally folks believe as close to the 18.1 lb weight limit as possible, probably not the best set up for XTC. Off hand is going to be challenging. My F class 223s are heavy varmint contours.

If you do it, there is really no need to feed 90s. They don’t give any significant advantages at 200 and 300, those lines are not won on ballistics, and at 600 you single feed. Generally 77s are the bullet of choice to mag feed at 200/300 with 80s or heavier at 600. Even with a goodly jump the shape of the 77 class bullets allows them to shoot well.

 

[rcgill]

Bob are your shooting a gain twist or 6.5 twist for the 90’s ?

7 twist.
I have recently used a 6.75 twist and don’t see a difference.
Bob

 

[Rob01]

I use MDT .223 mags and they allow loading to 2.550".

 

[CacheCropp]

My idea came about because while I’d love to shoot F-class, there are no matches, that I know of, within 3 hours of me in NE NC. Butner is 3.25 hrs and Bridgeville, DE is about 4 hrs away. There are a couple places that do High Power within an hour or 2. No places to practice anything over 100-150 yds.

So I’ll never seriously compete. The best shooters generally have a nice range nearby where they can work on it constantly. So I was thinking I would focus on High Power with an occasional 4 hr trip to an F-Class event.

I think I will table this idea for now. Not enough juice for the squeeze considering travel costs and ammo prices.

wish there was a nice rifle range anywhere between Richmond, Va and Greenville, NC.

 

[XTR]

While long range HP and F class are not all that dissimilar, XTC and F class are really different birds. While F class did evolve out of HP it was long range HP and not XTC. The best shooters win in both, but ballistics are more important in F class than in XTC. XTC is much more about where you point the gun than ballistics. (that is not to say that you can shoot high scores in F class just by having a good kit)