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On the subject of bronze brushes versus nylon.

I suggest that you “Google” the product, and read the mfg. full description. Personally I would not clean with synthetic sapphire.
I have done, nothing there not already on the label. You're probably referring to Corbin Bore Lap which is described as containing 30-40 micron synthetic sapphire flat plates. The Benchrest Bore Cleaner blurb just says 15-20 micron "levers", which may well be finer synthetic sapphire as well, but the omission is curious.
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Aren't performance results the ultimate answer to which procedure is best for you?
Absolutely. Using a borescope allows you to correlate the condition of the bore to the performance results.

Can this correlation be made without a borescope? Of course! But, it will almost for sure take longer.
 
Used to shoot with an army ranger, who was chambering Rock barrels. After turning one over to me he said: If I ever see you using a bronze brush on this barrel, I'll 'kick your ass'. FWIW.
And who was this? A tabbed or a scrolled ranger?

I was in 3rd batt..... We mainly cleaned with bronze brushes and butches bore shine circa 2006-2010 time frame. We had sweets on hand as well as jb bore paste if needed.

Our cleaning regiment was as follows:
Patch with butches
Give it a few min to soak
10 strokes back and forth with a Dewey coated rod and a bronze brush soaked in butches.
Patch tell clean patch
Load a patch with fp-10 and run it through the barrel and store in the arms room. (Mk11 also known as the sr-25 had a carbon steel barrel)

We cleaned the rifle every time the same way regardless if we sent 20 rounds down the pipe or 200.

I've done my own testing in civilian life and found that the common black nylon brushes suck. Bronze is softer than mild barrel steels and just works. Nylon brushes are a solution to a non existent problem imo.
 
I do not require my used barrels to look like they are not used.
I kinda go by the way it cleans, patch feeling as it's going down. After a good regimen of patch soak, patch brush patch brush patch, I'm done.

Bore scope tells me groves & neck ring build up & then copper.

EVERY time i brush it the first patch comes out black. The second is clean.
I could go for days like this....

Excessive brushing raggs the edges of the groves, imo

Worn brushes work great in scrubbing throat aka back n forth ....

I do not require my used barrels to look like they are not used.
I kinda go by the way it cleans, patch feeling as it's going down. After a good regimen of patch soak, patch brush patch brush patch, I'm done.

Bore scope tells me groves & neck ring build up & then copper.

EVERY time i brush it the first patch comes out black. The second is clean.
I could go for days like this....

Excessive brushing raggs the edges of the groves, imo

Worn brushes work great in scrubbing throat aka back n forth ....imo
I agree , I also go by feel unless I am just trying to go down to bare metal.... If I shoot it I clean it before it goes back in the safe.... Sometimes you can still detect a slight dirty spot on patches but I normally stop and run an oily patch down the barrel 2-3 times and it removes even more crude after letting it sit awhile.... I run a dry patch to get that gunk out and to remove extra oil then store it back in the safe.... I know alot disagree with using brushes etc but I have rifles that are fifty years old that have been cleaned this way their whole life that still shoot better than I can shoot them.... I also understand why people say it rounds the edges of rifling but sorry , if pushing a brush a few strokes down the barrel at the speed of smell is destroying my barrels and cleaning them is hard on them I have some rifles that over 50 years old that disagree...
 
I have done, nothing there not already on the label. You're probably referring to Corbin Bore Lap which is described as containing 30-40 micron synthetic sapphire flat plates. The Benchrest Bore Cleaner blurb just says 15-20 micron "levers", which may well be finer synthetic sapphire as well, but the omission is curious.
-

CBC uses 15-micron (avg.) diameter flat plates of a
proprietary synthetic sapphire crystal in an oil suspension.
The flat plates are so tiny that they work their way under
anything that projects from the bore surface and pry it off.
The motive power comes from a tightly fitted brush and
patch, stroked so that the brush moves forward about two
inches and then is forced to change direction and pull
backward for an inch
 
Boyd's Quote: "I have a number of high grade barrels, and I do not want them to get so badly carboned up that I have to use cleaning methods that I prefer not to use. By catching problems very early, dealing with them is relatively easy."

This is my motivation, and I hope I continue to learn better processes.
 
There are different grades of bronze wool just like the different grades of steel wool. What do you suggest for the grade of bronze wool to be used~? Four ought (0000) is generally used for polishing so I presume that a medium or coarse grade would be moe effective at cleaning.
 
Keep your worn bronze brushes and then get some bronze wool and wrap the brush with it and put a liberal coating of JB on it. The bore will come out cleaner than you’ve ever seen.
My question is which grade of bronze wool should I use? The coarse or the fine?
 
I have been using Fine Bronze wool for a while now, with Free All. I had a really nasty barrel that I used it with JB, wool wound in a worn bronze bristle brush. Bore scope showed NO scratching on the lands or grooves at all.

I have some Butch's Tweed Patches on order, will try them next.
 
I have been using Fine Bronze wool for a while now, with Free All. I had a really nasty barrel that I used it with JB, wool wound in a worn bronze bristle brush. Bore scope showed NO scratching on the lands or grooves at all.

I have some Butch's Tweed Patches on order, will try them next.
They are very thick. You will probably end up trimming them and/or using a smaller dia. jag to make them usable.
 
They are very thick. You will probably end up trimming them and/or using a smaller dia. jag to make them usable.
One of the Parker-Hale jags would work well, they're what I use to short stroke on a tight patch, or to swab on cleaner for soaking. Wrap the patch on it like a roll of paper towels, adjust patch size for perfect fit in the bore.

1658026366472.png-
 
I have been using Fine Bronze wool for a while now, with Free All. I had a really nasty barrel that I used it with JB, wool wound in a worn bronze bristle brush. Bore scope showed NO scratching on the lands or grooves at all.

I have some Butch's Tweed Patches on order, will try them next.
Have you tried the bronze wool with just a good solvent? So far, that seems to work about the same as using Free All - but without letting it soak for hours/days. But, using bronze wool is getting significantly more of the stubborn and hard carbon out. [I am short stroking the brush/bronze wool ~ 20 times in the throat and another 20 through out the bore.]
 
Yes, I have used the Fine Bronze Wool with solvents. Much of the issue is related to how much hard Carbon is in a particular barrel. R#15, 8208, Varget, and H4895 seem to cook the carbon much harder than some other powders, and those powders require a much harsher approach to the cleaning regiment, depending on how many rounds have been fired and how quickly they were fired.

I consider the Bronze Wool in a bronze bristle brush and plastic brush a very mild approach to Hard carbon removal.
 
Absolutely. Using a borescope allows you to correlate the condition of the bore to the performance results.

Can this correlation be made without a borescope? Of course! But, it will almost for sure take longer.
Makes sense - I can see how that could be of value as long as it's linked to performance. My issue was just cleaning to obtain a "good" borescope image without regards to performance results.

Just last week at the range, a guy was shooting with top grade equipment, with tailored reloads. As a conversation ensued it became clear that he was very knowledgeable. He was shooting some very impressive groups at 200 yards. The topic of cleaning came up. I asked him his thoughts.

He showed me pictures of his bore taken from his bore scope after a thorough and aggressive carbon and copper removal cleaning of his target grade 6.5 Creedmoor that was done some time ago. He then told me that it took about 20 to 30 rounds for the POI and groups to settle it which supported the idea of establishing 'copper equilibrium'. This led him to backing off the aggressive copper removal as part of his cleaning process which produced more consistent groups and POI.

This is similar to what I discovered in 2020 - 2021 when I began experiencing first shot flyers and the need to "season" the barrel before it would print a consistent POI after I began using Bore Tech Cu+2 after carbon cleaning with C4. Now I just use C4 with a bronze brush and at least on paper, I'm obtaining more consistent groups and POI.
 
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50 posts to date on this topic. :):):):)

Many varied opinions. Check the net and your find an almost infinite number of approaches.

Most who post on here are experienced shooters. They are not the once-a-year sight the deer rifle guys. They spend a lot of time on the range and start to discover what works for them, their rifle, and their application. In other words, they begin to accumulate data and knowledge on their procedures and the performance results.

Aren't performance results the ultimate answer to which procedure is best for you?

Bottom line, I don't think there is an absolute answer to the "proper" way to clean a rifle except it has to be done so you don't harm the bore during the cleaning process or allow corrosion to take hold.

Sometimes we can get lost in the quagmire of theories and technology when all we are trying to do is hit the desired target area on a consistent basis which has many parameters for a successful shot, the most significant of which is the skill of the shooter.
I could not agree more! When wacking crows repeatedly at 400 yards in moderate wind conditions (without using a portable bench) is the desired accuracy you don't need a bore scope. The cleaning procedures I'm using have made that possible for 40 years.

I have no idea what procedures I'd use for competition, I'd find something that works and stick with it. Most likely the procedures would vary depending on what type of competition I was shooting.

Bronze and nylon brushes would always play a part, a bore scope certainly when a new barrel was mounted, maybe if accuracy was difficult to achieve or if it radically changed. Being a good rifleman has little to do with buying gadgets.
 
Makes sense - I can see how that could be of value as long as it's linked to performance. My issue was just cleaning to obtain a "good" borescope image without regards to performance results.

Just last week at the range, a guy was shooting with top grade equipment, with tailored reloads. As a conversation ensued it became clear that he was very knowledgeable. He was shooting some very impressive groups at 200 yards. The topic of cleaning came up. I asked him his thoughts.

He showed me pictures of his bore taken from his bore scope after a thorough and aggressive carbon and copper removal cleaning of his target grade 6.5 Creedmoor that was done some time ago. He then told me that it took about 20 to 30 rounds for the POI and groups to settle it which supported the idea of establishing 'copper equilibrium'. This led him to backing off the aggressive copper removal as part of his cleaning process which produced more consistent groups and POI.

This is similar to what I discovered in 2020 - 2021 when I began experiencing first shot flyers and the need to "season" the barrel before it would print a consistent POI after I began using Bore Tech Cu+2 after carbon cleaning with C4. Now I just use C4 with a bronze brush and at least on paper, I'm obtaining more consistent groups and POI.
My experiance is similar. I would add this, when using moly bullets and barrel coating for field rifles cleaning in my opinion is not only just as important but a process to insure moisture removal is a must.

Moly can trap moisture so I'm a proponent of the old saying, a better world through chemistry. Light on aggressive scrubbing, heavy on (non-steel destructive) baths, heavy on drying the bore, an evaporation process, dry patches.

Then, a VERY LIGHT moly application (with moly when you think you have enough, you most likely have many times too much), several dry patches if the rifle will be used in the very near future. The bore gets plugged from the muzzle end to the chamber and the chamber gets swiped with a very light oil patch. The plugged gets pulled and I'll fire one round before going into the field.

Again I use bronze, nylon and even steel but only wrapped in patches.
 
I could not agree more! When wacking crows repeatedly at 400 yards in moderate wind conditions (without using a portable bench) is the desired accuracy you don't need a bore scope. The cleaning procedures I'm using have made that possible for 40 years.

I have no idea what procedures I'd use for competition, I'd find something that works and stick with it. Most likely the procedures would vary depending on what type of competition I was shooting.

Bronze and nylon brushes would always play a part, a bore scope certainly when a new barrel was mounted, maybe if accuracy was difficult to achieve or if it radically changed. Being a good rifleman has little to do with buying gadgets.
I hunt eastern ground hogs that have a relatively small vital area. Add in wind, mirage, heat, insects buzzing around your head and the most significant variable is me and my ability to place a controlled shot precisely off a shooting cross stick in the field in a hunting environment.

Of course, through careful load development, I have established varmint grade loads (for me the standard is approximately 1/2 moa) so when something goes haywire - it me.

The only time that cleaning became an issue was when I switched from Shooter's Choice to Bore Tech C4 and CU+2. I was totally content with Shooter's Choice for 30+ years but the odor bothered my wife, so I switched to an odorless solvent.

I began developing first shot flyers and the need to season the barrel to achieve consistent POI. After a painful and long process, much research, I discover it was the Cu+2 that was the culprit. It does a great job of removing copper if that's what you want. For me, it caused erratic performance results until the barrel was "re-seasoned." Now I just use C4 with a bronze brush which produces result similar to Shooter's Choice without the odor. The first shot flyers have disappeared, and my rifles shoot to consistent POI.

I will add that C4 does an outstanding job of removing carbon and I like the odorless aspect of this solvent. I suspect the reason for the similar performance is that like Shooter's Choice, it removes some copper but not all of it.
 

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