On the subject of bronze brushes versus nylon.

[big5ifty]

I have remembered reading that when using a bronze brush that you weren't suppose to reverse directions so no scrubbing back and forth.

Is there any truth to this?

There may be, but the best bronze brush size for carbon buildup is groove diameter, so the bristles don't bend if you reverse.

I'm familiar with the argument that copper wears steel, and more recently on this forum, someone seemed to think nylon wears steel. Could I could also say that water is used for steel profile cutting, so don't get your barrel wet ?

 

[BoydAllen]

There may be, but the best bronze brush size for carbon buildup is groove diameter, so the bristles don't bend if you reverse.

I'm familiar with the argument that copper wears steel, and more recently on this forum, someone seemed to think nylon wears steel. Could I could also say that water is used for steel profile cutting, so don't get your barrel wet ?

I have never been able to reverse a new bronze brush in a bore. If you can, IMO it is very worn and needs to be replaced unless you are using it wrapped with bronze wool, which needs to be wrapped to a snug fit. A tip for bronze brush use: stop when they just clear the muzzle and as you are pulling them back in do it very gently so that you will not bang the edge of the crown with the part just behind the bristles. Wipe the rod every time you remove it from the bore. When I do this I pull the rod and brush through a wadded up paper towel. Although this is in French, it demonstrates good equipment and technique.

 

[David Milisock]

I became a crowd follower, while claiming not to be.

On the subject of bronze brushes versus nylon.

I've been getting several strange results trying to figure out a groove diameter. After trying several methods, and looking at things carefully with a borescope, I realised the measurements are skewed by carbon buildup in the grooves towards the muzzle.

The rifle is fairly new, 300 rounds approximately so far. I've always used nylon brushes to clean it. I dip the end of a brush in the particular solvent, then brush the barrel with ten strokes. seperate brushes for each solvent. My cleaning involves a first pass with Ballistol, patched out, and a second with Boretech Eliminator. This process is repeated three times, and the Boretech sits for about 10 minutes each time before being patched out. I sometimes use Forrest bore cleaning foam before the first pass of Ballistol, and leave it in for an hour before continuing,

When the last patch is clean, I run one final patch with balistol, and I put the rifle away. I thought I was doing a good job of cleaning.

The first thing I did when I realised what I was dealing with was a twenty strokes scrub with Eliminator, and let it sit for an hour. Two patches later it was 'clean'. Borescope called bull-crap. Eliminator, brush, leave overnight. Next day, first patch was clean. I went through other solvents in my box. Butch's Bore Shine, Shooter's Choice and a foul smelling orange liquid in a bottle with no label. Nothing better came of it. I used JB Bore paste. All I got on the patches was JB Bore Paste. Same with Iosso. Then I went to Google.

I found mention of using a penetrating oil and a brush.

So I got myself a tin of Q5. Applied the Q5, brushed with the nylon brush, a bit of black on the first patch, third patch clean. Borescope still calling bull-crap.

I had one old bronze brush. It was the right size for the bore. Liberal squirt of Q5, wait one minute, bronze brush - jackpot. My barrel vomited black oil. I've been repeating this every few hours for two days, and the borescope is finally agreeing that cleaning is actually taking place.

300 rounds sounds like a low round count to have such a hard carbon fouling problem, but that represents close to 32,000 grains of powder. Enough, I think, to build up to this extent.

Nylon brushes do not clean anything. All a nylon brush does is spread the solvent around the bore nicely for you, and solvent is great for dissolving copper. All I manged to do with nylon brushes and patches was remove excess, then polish the residue into place in the barrel.

Whoever invented the nylon brush was not a rifle shooter, and never had to get a rifle barrel clean with one.

This is not a comment on the efficiency of any product named here. I just described what I did, and with what. It is entirely possible I was using the product the wrong way, not enough of, or without a key additive to go with it.

I've ordered bronze brushes for all my target rifles. I understand a bronze brush eventually wears, but that's why you can buy packs of 10.

The nylon brushes are only good for spreading copper solvent in the bore.

I'm of the opinion that the cleaning process I use depends on which of my rifles I'm cleaning.

My custom rifles all have upscale barrels, some use moly coating others do not, none get match level shot counts. I tend to use bronze and various solvents, the rifles return to a base level of known accuracy. Most times they were not shot enough for accuracy to deteriorate.

The varmint rifles shoot very fast loads, 3,900 FPS but also moly. My 35 caliber is at 3,200 FPS and no moly I use bronze as part of the process until I apply copper solvents.

My M1 Carbines are low pressure in rifle terms, they are rebuilt WWll modern shooters. I use bronze for the bore and nylon in the chamber.

My 2 AR 15's get bronze for the bores and chambers. I have 1 sporterized 8MM Mauser with a broach cut barrel. I've used some JB bore past twice on it and use bronze brushes.

All my handguns get nylon brushes but the barrels assemblies go into a solvent bath, in fact my rifle barrels all get heavily saturated with solvents.

 

[K22]

First let me say I'm not an "expert" or championship rifle competitor so take the following with that in mind. However, I do strive for 1/2 moa consistent precision for my varmint rifles, so precision is very important to me.

I've use bronze brushes for over 50 years with no adverse effects that could detect. I do use a reasonable amount of care in doing so however as follows.

1. I use a properly fitted rod guide.

2. I use a single piece high quality rod that rotates, i.e., Dewey.

3. I use Dewey no harm all brass core, looped end brushes that are properly sized for the caliber I'm cleaning.

4. I make sure when the brush is inserted into the rod that it is in aligned with the axis of the rod. This is easy to check by using a carpenter square. Even high-quality brushes can be slight canted - straighten them before using them.

5. I never reverse the brush while in the bore. When reversing after exiting the bore, I'm very careful pulling the brush over the crown making sure the brush center seats before pulling through the crown. Do jam the brush into the rod guide, ease in slowly allowing it to self-align.

Why do I believe in bronze brushes? Because the mechanical action of the more robust bronze brush seems to provide superior carbon removal capability. Don't take my word for it, try it yourself. Use your normal cleaning procedure with a nylon brush. Let sit for a day then reclean with a bronze brush then you decide.

Of course, do not use a bronze brush with aggressive copper removal solvents. Cooper removal is another topic which I won't go into here.

 

[BoydAllen]

I'm of the opinion that the cleaning process I use depends on which of my rifles I'm cleaning.

My custom rifles all have upscale barrels, some use moly coating others do not, none get match level shot counts. I tend to use bronze and various solvents, the rifles return to a base level of known accuracy. Most times they were not shot enough for accuracy to deteriorate.

The varmint rifles shoot very fast loads, 3,900 FPS but also moly. My 35 caliber is at 3,200 FPS and no moly I use bronze as part of the process until I apply copper solvents.

My M1 Carbines are low pressure in rifle terms, they are rebuilt WWll modern shooters. I use bronze for the bore and nylon in the chamber.

My 2 AR 15's get bronze for the bores and chambers. I have 1 sporterized 8MM Mauser with a broach cut barrel. I've used some JB bore past twice on it and use bronze brushes.

All my handguns get nylon brushes but the barrels assemblies go into a solvent bath, in fact my rifle barrels all get heavily saturated with solvents.

Bore scope?

 

[big5ifty]

I checked the graphite spray to be sure - it leaves a light grey residue, as the picture shows. On the far left is a clean patch with just the graphite penetrating spray, on the far right is a different make of spray on a clean patch. The three very dirty patches are what was coming out on days one and two. The second patch from the right is patched after using the non-graphite spray This is day three, so it should be cleaner.



Yes, the graphite spray imparts grey to the patch. What's coming out is a bit more than that.

This is what things looked like on day 1.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Cleaning a 6 PPC after 8 shots is very different from cleaning a 308 F class rifle after 110 shots with 10 rapid fire strings. A PRS barrel after a match is going to vary greatly from an informal target shooter after 30 shots.
A p.dog or ground squirrel shooter that shoots hundreds of rounds in a target rich environment will test the best of cleaning techniques.

Guys talking about what works for them and they never mention a word of their application/use, or if they are checking their results with the "clean patch" method or using a Bore Scope to verify.

True.
Those that shoot Short Range Group usually clean after every group, regardless of how many rounds were fired during the previous relay.

Many Score Shooters do not clean their 30 calibers untill the Match is over. I have followed this line of thought for years.

But I am going to now start cleaning my 30 BR after every target, just like I do with the 6PPC. It sure doesn’t hurt.

 

[Dave M.]

I became a crowd follower, while claiming not to be.

On the subject of bronze brushes versus nylon.

I've been getting several strange results trying to figure out a groove diameter. After trying several methods, and looking at things carefully with a borescope, I realised the measurements are skewed by carbon buildup in the grooves towards the muzzle.

The rifle is fairly new, 300 rounds approximately so far. I've always used nylon brushes to clean it. I dip the end of a brush in the particular solvent, then brush the barrel with ten strokes. seperate brushes for each solvent. My cleaning involves a first pass with Ballistol, patched out, and a second with Boretech Eliminator. This process is repeated three times, and the Boretech sits for about 10 minutes each time before being patched out. I sometimes use Forrest bore cleaning foam before the first pass of Ballistol, and leave it in for an hour before continuing,

When the last patch is clean, I run one final patch with balistol, and I put the rifle away. I thought I was doing a good job of cleaning.

The first thing I did when I realised what I was dealing with was a twenty strokes scrub with Eliminator, and let it sit for an hour. Two patches later it was 'clean'. Borescope called bull-crap. Eliminator, brush, leave overnight. Next day, first patch was clean. I went through other solvents in my box. Butch's Bore Shine, Shooter's Choice and a foul smelling orange liquid in a bottle with no label. Nothing better came of it. I used JB Bore paste. All I got on the patches was JB Bore Paste. Same with Iosso. Then I went to Google.

I found mention of using a penetrating oil and a brush.

So I got myself a tin of Q5. Applied the Q5, brushed with the nylon brush, a bit of black on the first patch, third patch clean. Borescope still calling bull-crap.

I had one old bronze brush. It was the right size for the bore. Liberal squirt of Q5, wait one minute, bronze brush - jackpot. My barrel vomited black oil. I've been repeating this every few hours for two days, and the borescope is finally agreeing that cleaning is actually taking place.

300 rounds sounds like a low round count to have such a hard carbon fouling problem, but that represents close to 32,000 grains of powder. Enough, I think, to build up to this extent.

Nylon brushes do not clean anything. All a nylon brush does is spread the solvent around the bore nicely for you, and solvent is great for dissolving copper. All I manged to do with nylon brushes and patches was remove excess, then polish the residue into place in the barrel.

Whoever invented the nylon brush was not a rifle shooter, and never had to get a rifle barrel clean with one.

This is not a comment on the efficiency of any product named here. I just described what I did, and with what. It is entirely possible I was using the product the wrong way, not enough of, or without a key additive to go with it.

I've ordered bronze brushes for all my target rifles. I understand a bronze brush eventually wears, but that's why you can buy packs of 10.

The nylon brushes are only good for spreading copper solvent in the bore.

Keep your worn bronze brushes and then get some bronze wool and wrap the brush with it and put a liberal coating of JB on it. The bore will come out cleaner than you’ve ever seen.

 

[AckleymanII]

It is amazing how many think that it may take 20 rounds for a barrel to settle back down after cleaning.

 

[David Milisock]

Bore scope?

No, I don't use them, I understand them for gunsmiths, competitors and the analy rententive but for varmint shooting in my opinion it's not required. I'm shooting 1 1/16" at 300 yards with factory rifles with custom barrels. Since I went to moly decades ago none of my varmint rifles experience accuracy deterioration during shooting.

The questions that beg, how much better are these field rifles going to shoot? How much cost to achieve that improvement? How detrimental to field carry will those changes be?

 

[David Milisock]

It is amazing how many think that it may take 20 rounds for a barrel to settle back down after cleaning.

I run a few patches when bring the rifle out of my safe and 1 round and it's always dead on.

 

[Bronsin]

I bought a Hawkeye 15 years ago and kept trying things until I found what I feel works best. These threads always pop up and I'm just past arguing about it.

 

[AckleymanII]

Moly/Danzac helps with the copper fouling, but does not do a darn thing for the carbon build up.

Just being able to keep the carbon ring out is worth the price of the $89 Teslong! Teslong also has a Veteran's discount!

 

[Old Navy]

375 RUM

Big sucker! Just right for deer and antelope according to some folks.

 

[Old Navy]

It is amazing how many think that it may take 20 rounds for a barrel to settle back down after cleaning.

I have three SSM barrels in three different cartridges. One will shoot two fowlers touching. Another will need five to settle down. One size does not fit all in my case.

 

[AckleymanII]

I start looking at bore condition, throat dia, throat wear when more than a few shots needed, when cleaned down to bare metal.

Worn barrels have their own movie.

 

[Carl S]

Stuart and Annie Elliott came over and shot a 100yd BR comp with us a few years ago.they shoot for Australia and they had just finished shooting in the world championships.i can't remember which country it was held in,but they called on us on route home.Annie came second overall in the individuals.i noticed they were cleaning there rifles after every relay wit JB compound.i asked Stuart if they were doing it on this one occasion.he replied 'we clean with JB after every relay all the time'..interesting..I can't imagine them having any problems with carbon or copper build up.

 

[AckleymanII]

Carl,S, They were probably NOT using bronze bristle brushes, eh?

 

[rwj]

I'm familiar with the argument that copper wears steel, and more recently on this forum, someone seemed to think nylon wears steel. Could I could also say that water is used for steel profile cutting, so don't get your barrel wet ?

When in sliding contact, hardened steel (RkC 60) will wear faster than nylon - witnessed it for 30 years in an industrial application. Boat owners who have had the unpleasant experience of nylon fishing line becoming wrapped around their stainless steel propellers will report a similar result.

 

[Shooter13]

Big sucker! Just right for deer and antelope according to some folks.

That's only if you are not looking for meat to put in the freezer!!