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Why Doc doesn't use the term annealed with cartridge cases

Stress relieving. Annealing means dead soft.
It does not. Annealing is just a heat treating term. You can take
material and put it in varying conditions. I've been seeing the term
"malleable" used. It would be better to use the term "ductile".
Ductile is tensile strength, and malleable is compressive strength.
 
I don’t anneal my cases.
I do anneal my case necks. Wether they are malleable or not I do not know.
What ever I do works
If the neck material lacked malleability, it would fail outright in your application. Obviously there's a minimum degree of malleability required which, unless they split, your necks exhibit. Somehow I feel you already know this. ;)
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It does not. Annealing is just a heat treating term. You can take
material and put it in varying conditions. I've been seeing the term
"malleable" used. It would be better to use the term "ductile".
Ductile is tensile strength, and malleable is compressive strength.
I agree, but in this context we are not confined to strict metallurgical terminology. The less rigorous definitions of "malleable" include adjectives such as "moldable", "pliant", "resiliant", "elastic". And there are alloys which must and do exhibit both ductility and malleability, perhaps our cartridge brass is one of them?
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Stress relief, I thought that was why we shoot?
Also about 830PM about two fingers of bourbon;-).
However a fellow gave me a shot of what he deemed good whiskey, I think maybe someone dunked their case necks in it to make them malleable. Junk would take the stripes off a raccoons tail!
 
When we partially reverse work hardening of the neck portion by heating, we are annealing it. The temperature and duration are controlled to transform the brass to a state considerably short of "fully annealed" (dead soft) but the process is "annealing" just the same.
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In metallurgy and materials science, annealing is a heat treatment that alters the physical and sometimes chemical properties of a material to increase its ductility and reduce its hardness, making it more workable. It involves heating a material above its recrystallization temperature, maintaining a suitable temperature for an appropriate amount of time and then cooling.



Annealing is a heat treatment process that changes the physical and sometimes also the chemical properties of a material to increase ductility and reduce the hardness to make it more workable.



to heat and then cool (a material, such as steel or glass) usually for softening and making less brittle


Annealing is a heat treatment process that changes the physical and sometimes also the chemical properties of a material to increase ductility and reduce the hardness to make it more workable.
 
I feel safe in saying that no amount of annealing or any other heat treating procedure will change he actual chemical content of a material, be it ferrous based, copper based, etc.

The chemical is simply the percentage of alloying elements. That is elements contained in the Periodic Table.

In the case of Rifle Brass, if it happens to be 70% copper and 30% zinc, you can heat it untill it melts into a puddle and it will still be 70% copper and 30% zinc.

What does change is the actual structure of these elements as they are arranged at he molecular level.

The copper is still copper, and the zinc is still zinc.
 
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Whaaa???? Is this right?

 
All I know is this:
I have one of those magical black boxes like the one pictured above. Says AMP on it. Hang a piece of brass in it, push the button and the brass gets hot. Bullet doesn't fall out of the neck when you seat it. Repeat as needed. About all I need to know.
 
What ever term you would like to use is fine with me. I really don't care.

I do have an opinion on your choice of reference material. The article is based on the thinning of cartridge brass from 15 to 70%, referred to as "cold worked" or "cold reductions". This process is done when the cartridge brass is formed in production, some times long before we (as reloaders) acquire it.

The study you referred to then "anneals" , their term, not mine, the cartridge brass to bring it back to a malleable state, and then lists the different times, temperatures and effects.

I can't speak for others, but I am not in the habit of reducing the thickness of my cartridge brass by 15 to 70%, so I am skeptical of the value of this study for my purposes.

But at least there wasn't any political agenda involved, and that's rare lately. And refreshing.

Jim

It's akin to what Jackieschimdt said it's a Term universally misused . Annealing takes place when the recrystallization restructuring of metal occurs ,as in the Grains become uniformed and aligned .

In order for this to happen " ANNEALING " of Brass ,requires ; Figures 8a and b show a B&W and a color image (Klemm’s I reagent) after annealing 30 minutes at 1300°F which produced a fully recrystallized, uniform grain size distribution but coarse grained (as in Figs. 1 and 3a).

The Key is Temperature and TIME ,held at Temperature .**
Annealing experiments were conducted on a number of the cold worked specimens. Figures 5a and b show color etched images of the specimens cold reduced 50% and then annealed 30 minutes at 500 and 700°F. No difference in the microstructure is seen in the specimen held 30 minutes at 500°F while a very small amount of recrystallization is observed in the specimen held 30 minutes at 700°F. Figures 6a and b show color images of 50% cold reduced specimens held for 4 and 8 minutes at 800°F while Figures 6c and d show 50% cold reduced specimens held 15 and 30 minutes at 800°F. No change is observed after 4 minutes at 800°F, while a minor amount of recrystallization has occurred after 8 minutes. Holding specimens for 15 and 30 minutes at 800°F revealed partial recrystallization after 15 minutes and full recrystallization after 30 minutes. The grain structure is relatively fine but is not uniform in its distribution.


Figures 7a and b illustrate the grain structure in color after 15 and 30 minutes at 900°F. The 15 minute hold produced a non-uniform grain structure while the 60 minute hold produced better results although the grain size distribution appears to be duplex. Figures 8a and b show a B&W and a color image (Klemm’s I reagent) after annealing 30 minutes at 1300°F which produced a fully recrystallized, uniform grain size distribution but coarse grained (as in Figs. 1 and 3a). Figures 8c and d show the same specimen but color tint etched using Klemm’s III and Beraha’s PbS tint etchants. Both are excellent for use with cartridge brass. Tint etchants also reveal details about the presence, or absence, of crystallographic texture. We note that as the cartridge brass is cold reduced greater amounts the grain coloring becomes more monotone, while when the annealing temperature is increased resulting in fully recrystallized grains with increasing size, the coloring becomes more variable with a random distribution of the colors. A random dispersion of a broad range of colors indicates that we have a random crystallographic texture while a narrow color range suggests that we have a preferred texture.


Vickers indents, 100 at a 100 gf load, were made on the original hot extruded and fully mill-annealed starting material and on the hot extruded, annealed and 50% cold reduced specimen and for similar 50% CR specimens that were annealed for 30 minutes at 500, 700, 800, 900 and 1300°F. Note that the distribution curves for the 50% CR specimen and the 50% CR specimen held at 500°F for 30 minutes are essentially identical, which is not surprising based on the image in Figure 5a which shows no influence of annealing at 500°F on the microstructure. As the annealing temperature increased from 700 to 1300°F, the HV distribution curves become more peaked and the hardness decreases. The distribution curve for the starting fully annealed specimen is the lowest in hardness as 30 minutes at 1300°F yielded slightly greater hardness. Figure 10 plots the mean Vickers hardness for each of the 50% CR specimens from the initial non-annealed condition (plotted at ambient temperature) versus the 30 minute hold at each annealing temperature from 500 to 1300°F.

** When Steel or other alloys requires annealing ,one doesn't simply pop it into a kiln and pop it out after it reaches a specific temperature ,it's HELD at Temp for a specific TIME ,in order to be FULLY annealed .

The Point of conversation was this is why I DON'T use the term . I've had My Butt chewed by metallurgist from the get go , for NOT being term specific with correct language . So I say malleable because that's in reality exactly what ALL reloaders are doing to their brass case necks & shoulders ,is undoing work hardening by quick heating and making them malleable again . Brass cups or pucks are drawn thus work hardening the entire case , the manufacturer then simply uses electrical induction so as to make necks malleable again . They DON'T anneal the Brass ,they misuse the term extensively and as Jackieschmidt pointed out 99.9 % know the intent .
 

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