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[TTE]

So am posting it here -

Looking for the best procedure to form 6.5 06AI from Lapua 30 06 brass. I have formed brass previously from 30 06 Norma brass. However they are not as expensive as Lapua brass. Just want to make sure I am not missing any steps so I reduce possible failures as much as I can. -
What I have been doing -
1- FL size with an 30 06 die (expander removed)
2- Run the 06 case into a 280 Rem. die as far as possible (with expander installed)
3- Run the case in a 270 WInchester die as far as possible (expander installed)
4- Trim to 2.500 ... deburr and chamfer
5 - Run case in a 264 neck sizer (expander installed) only far enough to create a false shoulder for fire forming.
6- Trim, deburr and chamfer to fire forming length
I don;t remember when I neck turned them, before or after fire forming (it's been a year or so).
My inquiry previously about annealing before starting the re forming process was ... ' can't hurt'
Am I covering all the steps needed for success ?
Thanks for your reply.

 

[Bill K]

If that is working for you with other brass, it will with Lapua also. With Lapua you may have to neck turn however, for sure, as more often than not, it is thicker. As for annealing, see how one case does, it should tell you if you need to anneal or not, first off.

 

[pintopete]

TTE, couldn't you just buy a Redding #77148 full length bushing die and the appropriate bushings to do the same? To AI your shoulder angle, you will need to fire-form of course, then buy an AI die for the regular sizing. With the bushings you can take as many steps in between as you want, and fine tune your final size for the 6.5 bullet. Skip the expander all the way. It seems that would just work the brass more than necessary. For a 20-222, that is the way it is commonly done. Simpler because no shoulder angle change of course. Just a suggestion...

 

[Prose]

Why is your expander installed in steps 2 and 3? That makes no sense

 

[pintopete]

Why is your expander installed in steps 2 and 3? That makes no sense

That's what I thought...I suspected I was missing something. Seems unnecessary.

 

[TTE]

I am waiting for dies from Niel Jones .... don't want to buy more dies, but I will if I have to.

I used the expander(s) hoping to somewhat get a thinner neck, or at least pushing most of the neck brass to one side for neck turning (but that is just a guess on my part).
Previously I just skimmed them off a bit (so the chamber easily) with my K&M neck turner before fire forming.

 

[TTE]

Thanks for your replies ..... I am learning.

No expander in any of the dies then, ..... got it.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Yea, you are squeezing the neck down then back up with each die, lots of overworking going on..

Frank

 

[RegionRat]

And... say you were doing this one way or the other and with or without the expander work...

If it were me, the issue of turning is optional as long as the brass thickness at the end is to your liking.

I would anneal after any step that cold works the neck and shoulder past yield, but just one step short of any final size.

Any step that does enough work on the crystal lattice that yields the brass, is creating the type of change that we call work hardening. When we end this with the intent of sizing to create a neck tension that is repeatable for accuracy and long brass life, we don't want all that hardness stacked into the work prior to final sizing.

The reduction in diameter will result in a thickness increase, but will depend on a few variables. If your chamber neck dimensions, and sizing process doesn't care what that thickness will be, then you don't always have to turn.

It is sometimes the situation where initial neck thickness is generous to start with, and wildcat reduction leaves it too thick in the end. Some wildcats that change the neck shoulder junction tend to make the details of the decision on when in the process to neck turn, dependent on when that shoulder junction can be formed. If your chamber won't allow a comfortable first fire forming, then you have no choice but to turn.

Most times a 6.5-06 AI is a wide neck for hunting, but nothing prevents someone from cutting the reamer to be more like a match chamber if they wanted to, so I would base the turning decisions on the final chamber dimensions.

I will look forward to hearing about your progress. Every 6.5-06 AI I have seen in person has belonged to a serious shooter and had very impressive ballistics and terminal performance on deer/elk. After all, what is not to like about a high BC bullet at high velocity?

Good Luck and in for the range report.

 

[pintopete]

if It weren’t for wanting Lapua brass, you could start with .270 Win or 25-06.

 

[TTE]

if It weren’t for wanting Lapua brass, you could start with .270 Win or 25-06.

I could not get a supply of what I think is good brass in 270 WIn (which I would have prefered) and IMO the 25 06 brass ends up too short. However, I am new to necking down from 30 cal to 26 cal so am open to advise from members here, that have far more experience at this sort of thing than I.

 

[TTE]

And... say you were doing this one way or the other and with or without the expander work...

If it were me, the issue of turning is optional as long as the brass thickness at the end is to your liking.

I would anneal after any step that cold works the neck and shoulder past yield, but just one step short of any final size.

Any step that does enough work on the crystal lattice that yields the brass, is creating the type of change that we call work hardening. When we end this with the intent of sizing to create a neck tension that is repeatable for accuracy and long brass life, we don't want all that hardness stacked into the work prior to final sizing.

The reduction in diameter will result in a thickness increase, but will depend on a few variables. If your chamber neck dimensions, and sizing process doesn't care what that thickness will be, then you don't always have to turn.

It is sometimes the situation where initial neck thickness is generous to start with, and wildcat reduction leaves it too thick in the end. Some wildcats that change the neck shoulder junction tend to make the details of the decision on when in the process to neck turn, dependent on when that shoulder junction can be formed. If your chamber won't allow a comfortable first fire forming, then you have no choice but to turn.

Most times a 6.5-06 AI is a wide neck for hunting, but nothing prevents someone from cutting the reamer to be more like a match chamber if they wanted to, so I would base the turning decisions on the final chamber dimensions.

I will look forward to hearing about your progress. Every 6.5-06 AI I have seen in person has belonged to a serious shooter and had very impressive ballistics and terminal performance on deer/elk. After all, what is not to like about a high BC bullet at high velocity?

Good Luck and in for the range report.

I will post a report as things progress.
It will take me some time to form cases. And as I live in Florida, heat/rain will become an issue with load testing as summer approaches.
The gun club I belong to (small rifle range), only 1 day a week for members only. Other times too busy to set up my chronograph.

However, I am going hunting with the 6.5 06AI next year, so I have to move along with a purpose.

Thanks to all that replied. If there is more advise out there, I'm listening (and learning).

 

[TTE]

OK did a test with 1 - case of RP 06' brass.

Removed all the expanders in the 280, 270 and 6.5 neck sizer.

Ended up with the inside of the neck too small to seat a bullet (I think).

I did not trim to length or anneal.

Ran the brass in the 'window' K&M die and it then measured .262 inside.

Did I misunderstand some of the advise ?

Will I need to put the expamder back in the 6.5 neck die ?

Thanks for your advise.

 

[Jackal2016]

OK did a test with 1 - case of RP 06' brass.

Removed all the expanders in the 280, 270 and 6.5 neck sizer.

Ended up with the inside of the neck too small to seat a bullet (I think).

I did not trim to length or anneal.

Ran the brass in the 'window' K&M die and it then measured .262 inside.

Did I misunderstand some of the advise ?

Will I need to put the expamder back in the 6.5 neck die ?

Thanks for your advise.

For the last stage, yes the expander ball would be required, or an expander mandrel next step.

 

[RegionRat]

Ended up with the inside of the neck too small to seat a bullet (I think).

I did not trim to length or anneal.

Ran the brass in the 'window' K&M die and it then measured .262 inside.

When you say K&M Window Die, I assume that means an expander mandrel?

An expander is often a better result compared to the expander ball in a die.

 

[Jackal2016]

When you say K&M Window Die, I assume that means an expander mandrel?

An expander is often a better result compared to the expander ball in a die.

Somehow I skimmed past that line of the K&M window die, lol. Which should have a mandrel in it if he attained 0.262", which is good for 0.002" interference fit (neck tension).

 

[TTE]

OK, .... so I didn't mess it up ?

 

[Jackal2016]

Check your neck thickness and turn them down if required (most likely), But your sizing down process sounds good.

 

[TTE]

Check your neck thickness and turn them down if required (most likely), But your sizing down process sounds good.

Cool ............ .. that makes 1 in a row

 

[Willie]

Okay! The last step is knowing how much to turn your necks to get .003-.004 clearance in your chamber neck.