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Why choose a .20 besides Practical?

Mark M. said:
Your right, there is no measurable difference between the tactical and practical except for the cost.
Tactical die set if you can find them, just south of 300.
Fireforming...primer, powder, pill, range time. in my opinion, that's a big price to pay to save on a couple of trimmings.
Practical..common nk die with 2 bushings.. done!
I'd say the name "Practical" is just about right
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Exactly how I see the 20-221FB vs 20VT, there's just no "Practical" reason to bother with the 20VT when a straight neck down 20-221FB will do everything just as well with less prep. In fact anymore unless there is a substantial gain by "improving" a case and there's no other larger case on the market I can just go with instead it doesn't make any "Practical" sense to monkey around with AI'ing or improving anything.

In the past I've been guilty of having a variety of different "improved" or AI'ed cartridges and maybe for a game animal deer/elk/moose/bear rifle where 100-200 pcs of fireformed brass will last you forever it makes sense but for volume shooting PD's or ground squirrels where most shots are well under 300yds I don't see the point and the whole well you have to trim the others a lot less is so over exaggerated.
 
B23 said:
Exactly how I see the 20-221FB vs 20VT, there's just no "Practical" reason to bother with the 20VT when a straight neck down 20-221FB will do everything just as well with less prep. In fact anymore unless there is a substantial gain by "improving" a case and there's no other larger case on the market I can just go with instead it doesn't make any "Practical" sense to monkey around with AI'ing or improving anything.

In the past I've been guilty of having a variety of different "improved" or AI'ed cartridges and maybe for a game animal deer/elk/moose/bear rifle where 100-200 pcs of fireformed brass will last you forever it makes sense but for volume shooting PD's or ground squirrels where most shots are well under 300yds I don't see the point and the whole well you have to trim the others a lot less is so over exaggerated.
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Took the words right out of my mouth
 
232 said:
Would not a 20-221 be considered "practical"?
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Well, the Practical got is the logical name for because it solved a problem that the 20 Tactical created, which is a more practical use of ones time, money, gas and barrel wear used to fireform cases for no apparent improvement. A 20-221 is easy and has the funky name VarTarg, which is definitely unique.
 
Mark M. said:
Your right, there is no measurable difference between the tactical and practical except for the cost.
Tactical die set if you can find them, just south of 300.
Fireforming...primer, powder, pill, range time. in my opinion, that's a big price to pay to save on a couple of trimmings.
Practical..common nk die with 2 bushings.. done!
I'd say the name "Practical" is just about right
Click to expand...

What the heck die set are you talking about??? Surely not the $60 Hornady FL/Seater set or $90 Redding set that’s available.

...and Fireforming? Don’t think so. Can load test and shoot the TAC while the shoulder makes the 7 degree change on the first firing. Really won’t be any difference in accuracy at all once cases are formed. Not shooting benchrest here, just varmints. My last TAC would put 5 rounds in the .3’s at 100 yards with multiple loads using virgin unformed 223 brass. Then repeat the same accuracy on additional firings with the brass now having a new 30 degree shoulder.

All the same goes for the 20 VT from 221 FB cases. I had exactly the same results while fireforming. Absolutely NO reason at all to not be load testing right off the bat with virgin brass.

Can’t figure out why people try to act like a 20 TAC or 20 VT is such a pain to do? Too much reading on the internet and not enough real world hands on experience with wildcatting is my only guess.
All that junk you guys are reading from green wildcat handloaders on needing to form those cases with multiple die passes and fireforming before load testing is just pure BS.

The 20 TAC and 20 VT cases are both ONE pass in the FL die with 223 or 221 FB brass to neck it down and set shoulders, then start load testing right out of the gate. Wasting time making brass any other way or wasting components fireforming cases before load testing is a rookie mistake.
 
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Ledd Slinger said:
Can’t figure out why people try to act like a 20 TAC or 20 VT is such a pain to do?
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I don't know that anyone is saying it's such a pain to do but rather there's just no appreciable gain to a 20VT over a 20-221, 20VTT over a 20-222 or 20TAC over a 20 Practical.

So from virgin prepped brass you work up a load that shoots well and that's the same load you shoot once your brass is fully formed?

In the "improved" cartridges I have I work up a load for fireforming and they generally shoot very well but then once my brass is formed I have to start all over and work up a new load with the formed brass.

As for dies, I use bushing dies for nearly everything I have and anything I have that is a straight neck down (20-222, 20-250, 6-284, 6mm Creedmoor) I already have the dies for their parent case so, for me, there's no need for yet another set of specialty dies.
 
B23 said:
I don't know that anyone is saying it's such a pain to do but rather there's just no appreciable gain to a 20VT over a 20-221, 20VTT over a 20-222 or 20TAC over a 20 Practical.

So from virgin prepped brass you work up a load that shoots well and that's the same load you shoot once your brass is fully formed?

In the "improved" cartridges I have I work up a load for fireforming and they generally shoot very well but then once my brass is formed I have to start all over and work up a new load with the formed brass.

As for dies, I use bushing dies for nearly everything I have and anything I have that is a straight neck down (20-222, 20-250, 6-284, 6mm Creedmoor) I already have the dies for their parent case so, for me, there's no need for yet another set of specialty dies.
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In a varmint rifle I’m generally loading up hundreds of rounds to go shoot ground squirrels or whatever. So I develop a quick load on virgin brass and then load all the virgin brass up with that recipe and go have fun in the field. Shoots great and nothing wasted.

You may want to tweak the load a hair on bullet seating depth or charge weight with cases formed but that’s no big deal. Just do that after you’ve shot up all your virgin brass ammo. If my Varmint rifles stay under 1/2 MOA accuracy then I leave them alone
 
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7315br said:
Totally agree. Just got back from a six day Sage Rat shoot yesterday. 17AH, 20 Mink, 20 VT. As usual I end up shooting the 20 Mink the most. Went through all the 20 Minks I had loaded (1250 rds). Barely a warm barrel including the sun being out. (300) rds between cleaning. Mostly 175-250 yd shots and occasionally 300+ yd shots when conditions were right. No muzzle jump and looong barrel life. Cheap in comparison to other 20's to shoot. What's not to like!
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were the babies out? I did some trips earlier before they were out and also the ranchers are doing a lot of poisonings. whenever there is a new manager, he thinks he will win the battle with poison, couple of years go by and they usually stop because of the cost and you can't get rid these critters. there is a standing joke in our circles. the rancher will pay $10,000 if you shoot the "last one".
 
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chuckshooter said:
were the babies out? I did some trips earlier before they were out and also the ranchers are doing a lot of poisonings. whenever there is a new manager, he thinks he will win the battle with poison, couple of years go by and they usually stop because of the cost and you can't get rid these critters. there is a standing joke in our circles. the rancher will pay $10,000 if you shoot the last one.
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Yes, the babies were out. Some seemed half grown. The Squirrels seemed late this year. I think weather played a big part in it. Out of ten days total, I didn't even shoot three of those days, and two 1/2 days. We had three excellent days though. New managers in some of our areas, but an increase in poisoning programs didn't seem to be there.
 
IF, and that's a BIG IF you are only going to have just one, then yes a 20 "PEE" is a great choice. but IF you are like me and can have move than one gun. and IF you shoot thousands and thousands of rounds a year at squirrels (sage rats to some) and prairie dogs. I chose the 20vartarg. there's an old saying put your money where your mouth is. I own one 20 ackley hornet, three 20 killer bees, six vartarg's, five 20p/tac and five 204's. yes, I know, I'm a lucky man. the point is when I go shooting squirrels, I have not taken a 204 in 4 years, and maybe only take one 20 "PEE" Prairie dogs are a different story, maybe two 204's and two 20"PEE"s,,, BUT I always take an ample amount of 20 vartarg's.
 
Right tool for the job is the way I see it.
On the subject of say the 20-221 vs 20VT, I think two things may influence the user. One being dies, the 20VT may be hard to find to nonexistent, there may be a 221 S die available from several vendors. Same goes for barrels (I use prefit) one vendor may not even offer a generic wildcat, but offer one with a name that has been talked about a lot.
As mentioned there isn’t enough difference to argue over a cup of coffee.

I went with the 20VT Mcgowen barrel because that is what choice I had, number two if I decided it wasn’t for me, I felt I could sell it easier than a 20-221. Several vendors had both dies at the time, so that had no bearing on it. I believe Preferred Barrels offers the 20-221? I have three from them now a d very happy, I just wanted to try a Mcgowen this time.
 
I have been down the 221 parent brass route, never again.

204 Ruger is the PRACTICAL choice, brass and dies are available....just do a search in the classifieds, Redding comp set plus new bushing $200...can not get more practical that that!
 
AckleymanII said:
I have been down the 221 parent brass route, never again.

204 Ruger is the PRACTICAL choice, brass and dies are available....just do a search in the classifieds, Redding comp set plus new bushing $200...can not get more practical that that!
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Yeah I will always have a place for the 204 Ruger. That was my first 20 cal back in 2005 that kicked off the craze for me. Have had piles of different 20 cal wildcats since then but as the others came and went, I still have a 204 Ruger in the safe to this day. It’s the same Rem 700 I bought back in 2005 and it is very accurate. Of course the original factory barrel got shot out a long time ago so it’s been rebarreled, restocked, and the receiver/bolt has been modified.
 
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