45cal in 45-70 brass

[M-61]

Do you own a reloading manual?

That should have been my first response ^^

 

[newshooter]

They will load just fine in the brass. shooting them might be a problem.

Not likely to load and feed in a lever action like Marlin or Winchester 1886 and depending on the tip of the bullet, might set the primer off due to recoil in the magazine tube.

Single shots like a Ruger #1, Winchester 1885, Handi rifle, it could work just fine.

This is why knowing the exact bullet, and intended rifle are critical to know before anyone can help you.

This ^^^^ is what’s needed to assist you correctly
Making the assumption that the bottom bullet is .458 is fine BUT if your rifle is a tube fed mag that looks way too pointed

Yes it's winchester 1886, if I could load them I would put one in chamber and only one in tube magazine...

 

[joshb]

WHAT IS THE WEIGHT OF THE BULLETS???

 

[dellet]

WHAT IS THE WEIGHT OF THE BULLETS???

better question.

Looks like a Barnes 250or 350 TSX, that might work in a tube feed. In a 1886, you will want to reduce loads from a Marlin action load data, and certainly don't want to use Ruger data. But if that is a Barnes bullet data will be available from Barnes and Hodgdon. Lever action only. Not modern.

Newshooter, people here are actually trying to keep you from being seriously hurt. In this case knowing the exact bullet is that important.

 

[joshb]

I’ve asked questions and have gotten no answers. I tried to help. I’m out of this potential disaster.

 

[Zero333]

We need to know...

Bullet Name
Bullet Weight

Without those 2 things we can't help you. things like COAL will determine your powder charge and weather you can feed them from the tube magazine. Since it doesn't have a pointed tip, it should be safe for tube mags.

You could seat the bullet deep in the case, but your powder charge would have to be reduced to keep pressures in check.

 

[SSL]

I’ve asked questions and have gotten no answers. I tried to help. I’m out of this potential disaster.

Seems to be an epidemic of such posts lately.

 

[newshooter]

Ok, here’s the problem:
45-70 is a cartridge not a bullet
That’s why we need more info or more preferable
a pic of the box of bullets you purchased
Would also like to know rifle you’re loading for

 

[newshooter]

We need to know...

Bullet Name
Bullet Weight

Without those 2 things we can't help you. things like COAL will determine your powder charge and weather you can feed them from the tube magazine. Since it doesn't have a pointed tip, it should be safe for tube mags.

You could seat the bullet deep in the case, but your powder charge would have to be reduced to keep pressures in check.

 

[newshooter]

What exactly did you purchase?
Weight? Make?
Two things:
You’re new at reloading so double check everything in particular powders. When you’re no longer ‘new’ at reloading you’ll still double check everything.
And you’re smart enough to ask before proceeding

 

[newshooter]

Ok, here’s the problem:
45-70 is a cartridge not a bullet
That’s why we need more info or more preferable
a pic of the box of bullets you purchased
Would also like to know rifle you’re loading for

 

[Zero333]

I see why you're asking for data, since there is no data for these bullets in the 45-70.

Can you measure the distance from the bullet tip to the first band on the bullet shank ?? This will give us a better idea of the COAL you might be loading them at. In turn this will give us a better idea for powder Max charge weight.

Usually if you want to feed from the tube mag you want to keep them shorter than 2.600", but this might be too deep leaving the brass mouth above the bearing surface of the bullet. This is why I'm asking about the distance from bullet tip to bullet shank in front of the first band.

If you're contemplating using this bullet for hunting, I would think twice. like someone else already mentioned, it might not get enough speed to expand properly.

 

[snert]

And we need to know what GUN you plan to shoot them from...if you have not already said that and I missed it

 

[XTR]

@newshooter you picked a hellofa cartridge to start reloading with. There are more variations and combinations of loads, powders, bullets, and firearm limitations that about cartridge I can think of.

Step 1 is get a reloading manual.

Second, that bullet is probably going to seat too long for your lever gun. It is designed for 458 win mag velocities that you can’t safely achieve in your lever gun. Going down the road of developing a load for a bullet that isn’t in the tables (taking that from the above comment) is not where you want to start reloading. There are a number of issues here.

There are several cartridges that you use for .458 bullets the 45-70 is one of them, but many of the cartridges are very different. The 45-70 produces much lower velocity that say the 458 Winchester magnum, which uses the same .458 bullets.

I would strongly suggest that you are going to reload for the lever gun find some Horndy or Sierra bullets in 325 to 350 grains that are designed for 45-70 velocities (and a reloading manual, I suggest a Lyman’s )

 

[dellet]

Looking at all available data and trying to find a way to make it work, is Interesting.

Looking at Barnes 458 Win load data, comparing loaded length with with bullet length, it just might work. Might have to trim the case a bit short, about .010” . No big deal same thing is done with the Hornady FTX bullet.

If I did the math right, it will be about .050” from top groove, to the bullet tip based on Barnes data of case length and loaded length. Chamber design may be a problem, but getting length that will feed should be possible.

So there is a way to possibly get it to load and shoot.

Now the bad news.
That bullet will likely need about a 1/18 twist minimum, to stabilize.

Your Winchester 1886 likely has a 1/20.

After going through a bunch of gyrations to get a load together, the bullets will likely hit sideways at 50 yards.

A good book and some searching proper components would be a better place to start when learning to load.

 

[SSL]

Bottom line: Give up on the idea and try to sell those bullets. Then try to find some cast lead .458" flat-points at about 350 to 405 grains and a good powder in the range of maybe H322 or IMR 3031. The listed suggestions should make it easier to craft loads that will feed and cycle in your firearm. Using the loading manual that you should not take another step before buying, work carefully from a starting load up.
Only do this after you have read and re-read the loading section and data.
Best of all, locate an experienced loader in your area who can mentor you. Much easier than asking partial questions lacking important details and people trying to figure out how to help you. Everyone is willing to help, but you have to do your part too.

 

[C_Ackley]

In a 1886, you will want to reduce loads from a Marlin action load data.

The browning designed 1886 is WAY stronger than a Marlin action. Marlin's weakpoints are the recievers which become a failure point when north of 43,000psi, this isn't an issue on the Winchesters. Manufacturers like Big Horn Armory chamber 1892's(a smaller derivative of the 1886) in 460 S&W(60,000psi).
I would only use trapdoor data if it was an original 1886 and never above it, but any modern reproduction is easily stronger than any Marlin period.

 

[Zero333]

If you really want to shoot these 450 gr TSX projectiles for fun at the range (not for hunting for these bullets will not expand at the projected velocities), I need to know the COAL ( cartridge over all length ) you will be loading them at.

At least let me know the distance from bullet tip to the first band on the bullet shank and I can give you a safe load using H-4895 ( a very safe powder for reduced loads ).

 

[newshooter]

Looking at all available data and trying to find a way to make it work, is Interesting.

Looking at Barnes 458 Win load data, comparing loaded length with with bullet length, it just might work. Might have to trim the case a bit short, about .010” . No big deal same thing is done with the Hornady FTX bullet.

If I did the math right, it will be about .050” from top groove, to the bullet tip based on Barnes data of case length and loaded length. Chamber design may be a problem, but getting length that will feed should be possible.

So there is a way to possibly get it to load and shoot.

Now the bad news.
That bullet will likely need about a 1/18 twist minimum, to stabilize.

Your Winchester 1886 likely has a 1/20.

After going through a bunch of gyrations to get a load together, the bullets will likely hit sideways at 50 yards.

A good book and some searching proper components would be a better place to start when learning to load.

Hi,I have hornady ftx 325 gr, problem is I can't crimp with my RCBS die because of
shorter brass, and can't find Redding profile die for it anywhere,

 

[newshooter]

If you really want to shoot these 450 gr TSX projectiles for fun at the range (not for hunting for these bullets will not expand at the projected velocities), I need to know the COAL ( cartridge over all length ) you will be loading them at.

At least let me know the distance from bullet tip to the first band on the bullet shank and I can give you a safe load using H-4895 ( a very safe powder for reduced loads ).