80gr ELD loads 223

[jlorenzo]

The heaviest Ive loaded in 223 are 77s but I have a new bolt gun with a 7.5 (haven't checked it yet so not sure) twist 26" Bartlein. Not sure on the chamber, bought it used but jam is out there. Just past the MDT's 2.55 coal.
Looking to get a feel for powder charges with this bullet (80gr ELD). I am seating the bullet long so the beginning of the boat tail is right at the neck/shoulder junction should allow for a little bit more powder correct?
I have N140, IMR4895, Varget, Tac. Looking for some N540. Probably going to start with N140, I have had great luck with VV powder so far.
What are you guys using charge wise for any 80gr bullet in 223?
I am using LC brass and CCI 41s.

Please share any experience you guys have.

 

[RegionRat]

http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223rembolt.pdf

https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

Look on page 232 of the Sierra Manual pdf for the SMK 80 loads.

The N140 and Varget are often popular, so no worries.

 

[karrarararararar]

The same loads that work well with 77's tend to work well with 80's too

 

[Rtheurer]

Not sure on the chamber,

When you recieve answers it will be very important to know what the Freebore of the chamber is in the persons reply to you. As in the past but more so now since The FTR and Palma guys are really working hard on getting the 223 to shoot well at 1000 yards you are going to see answers based on what they have for Freebore. Space available in the case can be all over the place as the Single shot rifle guys are increasing the Freebore out as far as they can to get every last little but of Internal volume of the case they can get to push the heavy bullets faster. There will be significant differences from an AR 15 magazine type rifle to a Single shot FTR/ Palma Rifle. I could be wrong but i suspect the two most common Chambers on the market are probably the Wylde Chamber and 5.56 for factory and semi custom rifles. The Freebore length on the Wylde is around. .0619 while the 5.56 Nato Freebore is .0566 I suspect your Chamber is the Wylde.

Attached is a picture of 88gr ELD and an 80gr ELD into the lands on a Wylde chamber with approximately 900 rounds on the barrel for visioal reference on how much room a Bullet can take up internal volume.

 

[jlorenzo]

When you recieve answers it will be very important to know what the Freebore of the chamber is in the persons reply to you. As in the past but more so now since The FTR and Palma guys are really working hard on getting the 223 to shoot well at 1000 yards you are going to see answers based on what they have for Freebore. Space available in the case can be all over the place as the Single shot rifle guys are increasing the Freebore out as far as they can to get every last little but of Internal volume of the case they can get to push the heavy bullets faster. There will be significant differences from an AR 15 magazine type rifle to a Single shot FTR/ Palma Rifle. I could be wrong but i suspect the two most common Chambers on the market are probably the Wylde Chamber and 5.56 for factory and semi custom rifles. The Freebore length on the Wylde is around. .0619 while the 5.56 Nato Freebore is .0566 I suspect your Chamber is the Wylde.

Attached is a picture of 88gr ELD and an 80gr ELD into the lands on a Wylde chamber with approximately 900 rounds on the barrel for visioal reference on how much room a Bullet can take up internal volume.

Mine seated to jam are a good amount longer than that.
The first CBTO I am trying is 1.9680 with the 80s and that is a ways back from jam. What would be the best way of figuring out what chamber I have?

 

[dstoenner]

I seated mine at .020 off the lands at around 2.500. My load was 24.4. They would hold around .5. I only shot them once at distance in a 300, 500 and 600. They did pretty good but at 600 in the latter day and higher wind they did drift more than my 260 shooting berger 130 otm.

David

 

[Dgd6mm]

24grs. Of H4895 at an oal of 2.473". Mostly HM scores at 600 when I stay on the conditions. But I guess I can say that every time.

 

[jlorenzo]

When you recieve answers it will be very important to know what the Freebore of the chamber is in the persons reply to you. As in the past but more so now since The FTR and Palma guys are really working hard on getting the 223 to shoot well at 1000 yards you are going to see answers based on what they have for Freebore. Space available in the case can be all over the place as the Single shot rifle guys are increasing the Freebore out as far as they can to get every last little but of Internal volume of the case they can get to push the heavy bullets faster. There will be significant differences from an AR 15 magazine type rifle to a Single shot FTR/ Palma Rifle. I could be wrong but i suspect the two most common Chambers on the market are probably the Wylde Chamber and 5.56 for factory and semi custom rifles. The Freebore length on the Wylde is around. .0619 while the 5.56 Nato Freebore is .0566 I suspect your Chamber is the Wylde.

Attached is a picture of 88gr ELD and an 80gr ELD into the lands on a Wylde chamber with approximately 900 rounds on the barrel for visioal reference on how much room a Bullet can take up internal volume.

How would you go about figuring out the chamber? I seated some bullets to where I can feel jam. Theyre out there, with the 80gr ELD the end of the bearing surface is right at the neck/shoulder junction. Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head. I think CBTO was 1.9 something. So it has a longer throat than I thought. Thats longer than a wylde isn't it?

 

[urbanrifleman]

How would you go about figuring out the chamber? I seated some bullets to where I can feel jam. There out there, with the 80gr ELD the end of the bearing surface is right at the neck/shoulder junction. Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head. I think CBTO was 1.9 something. So it has a longer throat than I thought. Thats longer than a wylde isn't it?

You have the 223 ISSF .168 FB most likely.

 

[jlorenzo]

You have the 223 ISSF .168 FB most likely.

I also noted that I can just barely chamber fired brass from my 5.56 gas gun. I can close the bolt but you can feel the shoulder contact. Is this normal/abnormal, just the way it is? Works for me because I can use the same die setting for both when resizing. I am bumping the gas gun brass .0035".

 

[RegionRat]

I also noted that I can just barely chamber fired brass from my 5.56 gas gun. I can close the bolt but you can feel the shoulder contact. Is this normal/abnormal, just the way it is? Works for me because I can use the same die setting for both when resizing. I am bumping the gas gun brass .0035".

Two points.
1) Yes you can do it, and you have the evidence that it can be done in your hands.
2) On the other hand, it isn't the best way to run for brass life since the AR is likely going to shorten the life of the primer pocket much faster than the bolt gun. Depending on your load pressure level, that difference can be significant. If your pressures are low, and you are lucky with chamber differences, that gap can close.

Only you can decide if you want to continue this way, or to keep your brass separated.
To get your answer and your own experience sooner, you may want to consider taking a small batch of something like 20 to 50 pieces and using them only in the bolt gun. By comparing to some that are about the same number that you run in both guns, you can get your view of this sooner rather than later.

There are often trade-offs in both your time and costs. When virgin LC brass was easier to get in bulk, I would buy no less than 2000 at a time. Now that all rifle brass is like finding unicorns, I am not so generous with it.

Prairie dog hunting can consume large lots of brass, and with multiple guns and both bolt and AR platforms running together on trips, one learns the ins and outs of logistical management or they run out of brass quickly. YMMV

 

[jlorenzo]

Two points.
1) Yes you can do it, and you have the evidence that it can be done in your hands.
2) On the other hand, it isn't the best way to run for brass life since the AR is likely going to shorten the life of the primer pocket much faster than the bolt gun. Depending on your load pressure level, that difference can be significant. If your pressures are low, and you are lucky with chamber differences, that gap can close.

Only you can decide if you want to continue this way, or to keep your brass separated.
To get your answer and your own experience sooner, you may want to consider taking a small batch of something like 20 to 50 pieces and using them only in the bolt gun. By comparing to some that are about the same number that you run in both guns, you can get your view of this sooner rather than later.

There are often trade-offs in both your time and costs. When virgin LC brass was easier to get in bulk, I would buy no less than 2000 at a time. Now that all rifle brass is like finding unicorns, I am not so generous with it.

Prairie dog hunting can consume large lots of brass, and with multiple guns and both bolt and AR platforms running together on trips, one learns the ins and outs of logistical management or they run out of brass quickly. YMMV

Oh I'm definitely keeping separate batches of brass for each gun. For now I am using once fired LC brass from Xm193 but I also have some new LC. Once Ive got a feel for the gun Ill probably get some Lapua.

I just meant in order to resize the brass for both guns I can use the one die because it bumps the shoulder about right for both chambers. Well see I have another identical die I can set up also.

 

[RegionRat]

Oh I'm definitely keeping separate batches of brass for each gun. For now I am using once fired LC brass from Xm193 but I also have some new LC. Once Ive got a feel for the gun Ill probably get some Lapua.

I just meant in order to resize the brass for both guns I can use the one die because it bumps the shoulder about right for both chambers. Well see I have another identical die I can set up also.

Yes, you can often find that two different rigs can share the same die and die setting.

Even then, the other chamber issues such as diameters are not as die adjustable, and that issue can drive the luck of allowing the brass to comingle or the need to separate them. YMMV

 

[jlorenzo]

Did some single rounds to look for pressure. 25.0 N140 looking good for the 80s, getting me 2920 fps. The lower charge of a velocity plateau. 75gr ELDs getting me 3013 fps with 25.2gr of N140. Both shoot great.

Heres my data from doing 10 round load dev. I shot the same point of aim for the 10 charge weights with each bullet. shot good groups despite being different charges.

 

[RegionRat]

Looks like you are ready for tests at distance.

If you are low on experience, try to keep the batch size small and get several cycles on the cases to see how they do in terms of primer pocket life, before you run off a giant batch. Good Luck and in for the range report.