First shot from cold bore impact?

[MT257]

Two patches with lighter fluid has worked well for me in the past on hunting rifles. Try it.

What do you do with the lighter fluid soaked patches?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

That BDL box magazine should not be tight, you can use a belt sander(course metal belt) and remove 1/16" off the bottom until you can move it. I run 65 inch pounds, no problem if action sits flat and isn't warped. I had to sand 3/8" off a m700 adl magazine to use it with a HS precision and bdl bottom metal.

 

[Bill Norris]

That BDL box magazine should not be tight, you can use a belt sander(course metal belt) and remove 1/16" off the bottom until you can move it. I run 65 inch pounds, no problem if action sits flat and isn't warped.

I always run 65 inch lbs. on H & S and B & C synthetic stocks with no issues at all.

 

[nmkid]

What contour on that barrel? Some contours just don't shoot well free floated. Try folding a business card in half or even quartered. Place it about 2 inches back from fore end of stock under the barrel. Torque action screws to 30 inch pounds. Try different torque settings, 20 pounds or even 40 pounds.

Different torque settings worked for me. I always used to go by the manufacturer's torque suggestions. It was always 60-65 lbs. About 3 rifles ago I started using different toque settings and now I hardly ever go over 55 lbs. no matter what the recommended settings are.

 

[Full Chisel]

I don't know if this will help, but I had that same issue on 2 different rifles - first was a Marlin 336 30-30; second was a Savage 12 FTR 223. Both rifles had stocks worked on meaning bedded, forearm relieved (336), etc. It was always factory ammo that did it. Once I found the right load, problem completely disappeared.

As an example, the Savage would start 5" left and walk into target using 55 gr factory stuff. Even 68 & 75 gr factory stuff would do same, just not as bad. Once I took same 75 gr bthp, touched the lands, and put it over RL15, it never did it again, ever. Same story with Marlin and 160ftx and LVR, except the nodes were narrow and pretty wild at edges, that is until I ran it up to max, then it got really accurate and cold bore flyer is gone. Anyway, just a case for it possibly being load and related to powder temp from cold/warm barrel. YMMV.

 

[MT257]

I don't know if this will help, but I had that same issue on 2 different rifles - first was a Marlin 336 30-30; second was a Savage 12 FTR 223. Both rifles had stocks worked on meaning bedded, forearm relieved (336), etc. It was always factory ammo that did it. Once I found the right load, problem completely disappeared.

As an example, the Savage would start 5" left and walk into target using 55 gr factory stuff. Even 68 & 75 gr factory stuff would do same, just not as bad. Once I took same 75 gr bthp, touched the lands, and put it over RL15, it never did it again, ever. Same story with Marlin and 160ftx and LVR, except the nodes were narrow and pretty wild at edges, that is until I ran it up to max, then it got really accurate and cold bore flyer is gone. Anyway, just a case for it possibly being load and related to powder temp from cold/warm barrel. YMMV.

With same load in original stock it never had to walk in.

 

[Old Navy]

I think my walnut stock was 45 in/lbs. Have you found any issues using 30 in/lbs?

No I haven't. Last time out I shot two of my best groups this winter.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

With same load in original stock it never had to walk in.

Gotta start and end with the stock then. An hs precision aluminum bedding block needs to be bedded. Youll see in the front it only hits 2 pencil thin stripes and probably doesnt hit the lug in any place. Only 2 things that could be your issue and thats the bedding or your rest setup. Thats all thats been changed. If your back bag isnt settled that will cause a flyer as well as the change in balance. My bet is on the bedding causing the issue

 

[Dave M.]

What do you do with the lighter fluid soaked patches?

Lol. Push them through the barrel like I do will all of the rest of the patches I use. Give it a try and tell me what you think.

 

[HTSmith]

Gotta start and end with the stock then. An hs precision aluminum bedding block needs to be bedded. Youll see in the front it only hits 2 pencil thin stripes and probably doesnt hit the lug in any place. Only 2 things that could be your issue and thats the bedding or your rest setup. Thats all thats been changed. If your back bag isnt settled that will cause a flyer as well as the change in balance. My bet is on the bedding causing the issue

I really bought into the V Block, no bedding necessary theory but it didn't work out in real life. Bedding my HS precision stock greatly improved accuracy and consistency. If the receivers were straight and true it ought to work, but I'm guessing they often are not. JME

 

[MT257]

Lol. Push them through the barrel like I do will all of the rest of the patches I use. Give it a try and tell me what you think.

Are they intended as a cleaning agent or what? I've never heard of this before that really why I ask.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I really bought into the V Block, no bedding necessary theory but it didn't work out in real life. Bedding my HS precision stock greatly improved accuracy and consistency. If the receivers were straight and true it ought to work, but I'm guessing they often are not. JME

The more torque you put on the screws the more it pulls it into that gap below the contact strips on the side also.

 

[Full Chisel]

Went back to range to test two separate 4 shot groups out at different COAL. The first shot (cold bore fouled) hit roughly 2” low of center target. I then proceeded to wait 2 min to shoot and the 2nd shot was half in left and 1” high of center then next two shots were shot within 45 seconds. Shots 2,3,4 were a dime sized group. I went to shoot the other test loaded coal.

With same load in original stock it never had to walk in.

So you shot two groups with different COAL, but one COAL had already been used before on original stock setup?

 

[MT257]

So you shot two groups with different COAL, but one COAL had already been used before on original stock setup?

Yes same charge. One of them 0.03” longer. This was done out of pure curiosity. Both the original oal and the longer oal the first shot was a few inches low of where I was aiming. The remaining 3 shots of both oal loads would be just left and high of where I was aiming. If you remove both first shots I would have been content. I left rifle sit probably 15 min before firing the second set of loads. Temp was 20 degrees so heating of the barrel was back to cold conditions.

 

[Dave M.]

Are they intended as a cleaning agent or what? I've never heard of this before that really why I ask.

The first cleans any residual residue out of the barrel and the second leaves a fine protectant/lubricant layer after the solvent flashes off. It works. But I truly believe the OP has a greater issue with the stock and bedding strategy.
dave

 

[buckys]

With same load in original stock it never had to walk in.

Have you tried the old stock with the same loads again? If you do and it continues to group well around the 1st cold bore POI, then you've narrowed the variables.

 

[Full Chisel]

Yes same charge. One of them 0.03” longer. This was done out of pure curiosity. Both the original oal and the longer oal the first shot was a few inches low of where I was aiming. The remaining 3 shots of both oal loads would be just left and high of where I was aiming. If you remove both first shots I would have been content. I left rifle sit probably 15 min before firing the second set of loads. Temp was 20 degrees so heating of the barrel was back to cold conditions.

Well if you want to test if it's the load starting below node then heating up in warm chamber and moving into node, you could always bump up powder charge a few tenths, or just keep ammo warm before starting, and see if the cold shot is still low.

 

[divingin]

I haven't had the problem, nor have I ever tried to correct said problem. That being said, I have read of possibly using colloidal graphite to help with cold bore shot placement. Perhaps someone with actual experience using it will chime in?

I've been using colloidal graphite as a post-cleaning barrel treatment for several months now (with one barrel starting from unfired, another was thoroughly cleaned before starting with graphite.)

On my short range bench rifle, the first cold, clean bore shot is generally 100fps slower than everything else, but lands in the same spot as subsequent shots. Plays hell with SD's.

On the general purpose rifle, the first cold, clean bore shot ends up a half to 3/4 inch out, usually to the right and a tad high. I don't recall any chrono data from those strings. Subsequent shots group normally (well, as normally as I shoot that rifle, anyway. Will be working on tuning the rifle's balance.)

I use the graphite more as a fouling preventative; I seem to get less copper in the bore with it (well, maybe not less, so much as it comes out easier.) I haven't seen much of a difference in first shot placement with or without it.

 

[Will Henry]

My best rifles, of any persuasion, would always put the first shot, from a clean, cold bore, to the center of the group. If a rifle did not do this, I would re-bed it and, if that didn't work or there were other indicators, I would pull the barrel.
I seldom shoot my hunting rifles from a benchrest but will shoot off my elbows. I expect the first shot to land at the center of the group, providing my hold is good. If it does not, the rifle isn't much good as a hunting tool. WH

 

[Gargoyle]

My ELR rifle hits cold bore .2 mil high first shot like a clock. Rest of them hit .2 mil low and ragged hole. I attribute this to heat and not copper level. The barrel shoots the same clean or dirty, but that first round is very predictable. (I've only started cleaning recently due to the images I see in the bore scope! LOL. Wipe out foam and Hoppes Black copper solvent seem to work good after letting a soak for a couple hours.)