Belted magnums question

[Bill K]

I agree, he should pull out a reloading manual and/or find some photos of the various brass cases and see what a belted case looks like. For sure a 45-70 is not a belted case. And bottle necked cases have been around way prior to the belt being placed onto some, for head spacing. i.e. 300 and 375 H&H brass.

Someone doesn’t know the difference between a rimmed case and a belted case….







.

 

[old_heli_logger]

I agree, he should pull out a reloading manual and/or find some photos of the various brass cases and see what a belted case looks like. For sure a 45-70 is not a belted case. And bottle necked cases have been around way prior to the belt being placed onto some, for head spacing. i.e. 300 and 375 H&H brass.

He was referring to a rimmed case....from an earlier comment

 

[XTR]

@Bill K , your original post, which I quoted, notes "belted/rimmed" (I even bolded it the second time). I don't believe I'm confused as to the characteristics of the case in any way.

 

[Bill K]

Oh well, a belted case is a belted case, not rimmed. I will end with no further comments re: the OP's original post and question.

 

[joshb]

If you want a thumper, look at the 300 WSM. Short barrel life turned me off of shooting my Sako TRG 300 Win Mag. It became a once in a while gun. Mine only has 150 rounds on it, so far. Reloading for it was fairly easy, tho.
Look at the numbers for the old 30-06 while you’re at it and the 284.
I have a brand new Tikka T3 I bought that hasn’t had a round thru it. I was going to shoot it someday but then I got old.

 

[Gargoyle]

In the grand scheme of things, the belt doesn't matter. After the first firing the cases stretch to headspace off the shoulder like all other brass. FL size and bump the shoulder .002". Have a blast!

 

[davidjoe]

I’m looking at the reamer, a loaded factory federal case and a Lapua case. While the extra brass of the belt won’t make the primer pocket, at least the bottom, last any longer, it would seem like its being there is only adding a bit to the strength of the head. The entire belted area is chamber-supported, so it shouldn’t “grow” disproportionately and it’s actually wider than the rest of the head, so I would think it adds some strength, if only marginally, and even if not in a particular trouble area.

Already, the case has more volume than the 300 PRC, but in a more columnar shape conducive to shooting heavy bullets shallowly seated relative to an arbitrarily short COL, that doesn’t hamper the PRC, or the WM hand loader. If it were to be as wide as the belt instead of rebated from the belt onward, but otherwise the same then it would end up being in a different category of larger case altogether.

 

[darkangel_r2]

I’m looking at the reamer, a loaded factory federal case and a Lapua case. While the extra brass of belt won’t make the primer pocket last any longer, it would seem like its being there is only adding a bit to the strength of the head. The entire belted area is chamber-supported, so it shouldn’t “grow” disproportionately and it’s actually wider than the rest of the head, so I would think it adds a some strength, if only marginally, and even if not in a particular trouble area.

I think the problem with the design by comparison to 30 nos and 300 prc comes from if you are headspacing fireformed brass off the shoulder like you should that means some amount of brass above the belt is going to be hanging unsupported by the chamber. The web width is equal or larger on those two as well so I wouldn't be surprised if they handled higher pressures better than 300 win. Though 60 k psi has more force against a 532 and 550 web than a 513 web so that may be a wash.

Already, the case has more volume than the 300 PRC, but in a columnar shape more conducive to shooting heavy bullets shallowly seated. If it were to be as wide as the belt instead of rebated from the belt onward, but otherwise the same then it would end up being in a different category of larger case altogether.

I'm pretty sure 300 prc has 3-4 grains more capacity than 300 win if comparing brass from the same manufacturer. I did see mark and sam did a side by side on 300 prc and win mag and their win mag was able to get more velocity before pressure signs. Not sure if thats a real trend or if its just in their guns or due to their brass.

 

[davidjoe]

Yes, I see most brass gives the PRC a little more capacity. I’m seeing about 1.8 grains of water difference.

 

[dkhunt14]

I own and load for 5 belted mag rounds. Once you get your die set up right to headspace off the shoulder with appx .002-.003 shoulder bump the case life has been as good as any other cartridge I load for. Of course it also depends on brass quality and how hot you run the loads.

We have got upwards of 50 reloads with WSM. 1000 yards BR and they are not cold loads. You won't touch that with a 300 Win. Mag. Barrels last longer and accuracy is way better with the WSM. Matt

 

[nmkid]

The only thing I learned about the 300 Win Mag while living in Wyoming...All 4-legged creatures will hate you!

 

[Murray Brook]

We have got upwards of 50 reloads with WSM. 1000 yards BR and they are not cold loads. You won't touch that with a 300 Win. Mag. Barrels last longer and accuracy is way better with the WSM. Matt

Never loaded for a 300 WSM so I can't comment on brass life other than to say I've never got 50 reloads with any cartridge that I've loaded for, even my 222 rem or 6 br.

 

[4xforfun]

I doubt we will ever see any new cartridge developed by the major manufactures on a belted case.
That being said, I will say I've been shooting 300WM for quite a number of years (and not just one or two rounds a year) and I really have no plans to move to the 300PRC or any Nosler named number. In fact, when this barrel quits shooting well enough to win (it has well over 1k rounds now) I have another waiting on the shelf. Life became a lot better (brass life) when I began using the Innovative Technologies Collet Die. I have Norma 300 WM brass that is ten years old. It is relegated to lighter loads now but still no sign of separation. The primer pockets are getting a little stretched out thou

I gotta say...the 6.5 -300 WBY is fairly new.

 

[shoot4fun]

I gotta say...the 6.5 -300 WBY is fairly new.

6 years old now and I would venture not nearly as many would chamber it over the upstarts of the Nosler family of big magnums. I wonder just how many 6.5-300 WBY Mags are out in the wild?
Belted mags still have a strong following (375 H&H, etc) but don't expect a proliferation of new commercial cartridges with belts. I wouldn't call the 6,5-300 anything near a "proliferation".

 

[joshb]

Ha......Just wait until they launch the 6.5 SUPER CREEDMOOR BELTED MAGNUM. It’ll sell.

 

[Edd]

I‘ve got the parts stashed to build a new rifle with a belted case cartridge and nobody is going to talk me out of it.

 

[RustyInBend]

Hardly an expert on this but the cons that I have heard on 300 WM is short barrel life, and shortened brass life. Case head separation indicators need to be checked.

There is a die from Larry Willis that I use and I like it. Claims to extend the brass life and takes care of the battle of the bulge.

I actually bought one of "these" thinking it would be necessary when I started loading 300-WM. But thus far, through four firings, my full-length Redding sizing die has "beaten the bulge" and all cases test just fine in the "bulge meter" that comes with this die. Oh well ... better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

 

[shoot4fun]

I actually bought one of "these" thinking it would be necessary when I started loading 300-WM. But thus far, through four firings, my full-length Redding sizing die has "beaten the bulge" and all cases test just fine in the "bulge meter" that comes with this die. Oh well ... better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

If they are still fitting after four firings you ain't putting enough powder in it!!!

 

[shoot4fun]

Ha......Just wait until they launch the 6.5 SUPER CREEDMOOR BELTED MAGNUM. It’ll sell.

It's called 6.5PRC but they forgot the belt.

 

[Ray123]

I actually bought one of "these" thinking it would be necessary when I started loading 300-WM. But thus far, through four firings, my full-length Redding sizing die has "beaten the bulge" and all cases test just fine in the "bulge meter" that comes with this die. Oh well ... better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

I've been loading belted magnums for years never had any problems with any of them...no need for any special dies. Even when using 300 win mag., 7mm Rem mag, or 338 win mag brass cut down to make 350 Remington mag., even with hot loads they always resize down to fit the various belted magnum rifle chambers I own.