Extraction Funnies

[xswanted]

Alright I’m lost. I THINK I’ve narrowed this problem down but I’m not sure. Ideas needed.

I have a 20-250 Douglas barrels did for me last fall. It’s on a 700 action.
I’ve necked down brass with a full length bushing die with a 231 bushing. Lapua brass and Nosler brass.

Other than the very first firing on virgin brass and even sometimes on virgin brass the bolt will not open.

The bolt will lift up with no issues. Feels like it’s empty. However it will not pull back.

It’s not clicking like some do.

I’ve tried the barrel on 2 actions now with multiple bolts and trigger combos. Still won’t pull back.

Warm loads, light loads and a few in between, different powders…….Among many other experiments.

I actually even cut a piece of brass off half way up the neck, chambered it and it still won’t pull back after the bolt is up.

I’m shooting the rifle suppressed and I’m getting a large amount of blowback into the action. It’s even created “deposits” of soot on one side of the neck of the fired cases. I don’t have pics unfortunately.

It’s done this with two different base powders in higher and lower charges. I’ve never had this happen before with other overbore 22s or 20s

My diagnosis is the chamber is slightly crooked from the action/bolt face.

Or……what else?

I’ll let you know if I’ve tried it as replies come in.

Thank you!

 

[slobhunter2]

Call Douglas, from what I have seen they go out of their way to help.

 

[xswanted]

Call Douglas, from what I have seen they go out of their way to help.

Yep I will for sure tomorrow and my experience is the same as yours, they’ve been very good over the years.

Curious minds need to know!

 

[edwardware]

The bolt will lift up with no issues. Feels like it’s empty. However it will not pull back.

Then:
1) primary extraction isn't timed correctly, and isn't happening on bolt lift, or
2) there's a straight section of case binding. If a tapered section was binding, primary extraction would break it free.

Check primary extraction, and then bust out a sharpie and look for the bind.

 

[Walt Krafft]

I would like to see a picture of a fired case.

 

[DirtySteve]

I am thinking primary extraction issue, as well....

Any chance it is an "RR" action?

 

[xswanted]

Then:
1) primary extraction isn't timed correctly, and isn't happening on bolt lift, or
2) there's a straight section of case binding. If a tapered section was binding, primary extraction would break it free.

Check primary extraction, and then bust out a sharpie and look for the bind.

Can you explain “primary extraction” Im not up to speed on what exactly is happening when this is discussed.

Also would this be the same on 2 actions and multiple bolts/trigger combinations?

 

[xswanted]

I would like to see a picture of a fired case.

Anything you’re looking for?

I can post one later but there’s nothing that sticks out as odd to me.

The blowback I’m getting leaves about 1/4 of the shoulder covered in a hard soot.

 

[xswanted]

I am thinking primary extraction issue, as well....

Any chance it is an "RR" action?

Neither action the barrel has been on is one of the RR numbers.

 

[DirtySteve]

Please explain action "timing"

I have read some posts here about action timing, but I do not understand what action timing actually is. Will someone please tell me what it means, and how it is accomplished, and what difference it makes to the shooter/accuracy?

forum.accurateshooter.com

EDIT: Here are some videos from Alex. Very informative.

Videos | wheeleraccuracy

www.wheeleraccuracy.com

check this out there is a video..

 

[358WCF]

Lapua brass is a couple thou bigger at the base than domestic brass. If the Nosler is old enough to be made by Norma it may be bigger too. SAAMI spec is not CIP spec.

Have you shot it without the suppressor? Does it still soot the cases? I wonder if there's enough crap in the chamber that it acts like antiskid (antiextract)?

 

[xswanted]

Lapua brass is a couple thou bigger at the base than domestic brass. If the Nosler is old enough to be made by Norma it may be bigger too. SAAMI spec is not CIP spec.

Have you shot it without the suppressor? Does it still soot the cases? I wonder if there's enough crap in the chamber that it acts like antiskid (antiextract)?

Yep and I’ve checked this as well.

Cleaned out very well and still sticks.

 

[timeout]

I seriously doubt that a chamber done by Douglas would have this problem but a slight burr at the beginning of the chamber will do this. I had an inexperienced guy do some chambers for me and he didn't deburr them. The bolt would lift easily but not move rearward.

 

[xswanted]

Please explain action "timing"

I have read some posts here about action timing, but I do not understand what action timing actually is. Will someone please tell me what it means, and how it is accomplished, and what difference it makes to the shooter/accuracy?

forum.accurateshooter.com

EDIT: Here are some videos from Alex. Very informative.

Videos | wheeleraccuracy

www.wheeleraccuracy.com

check this out there is a video..

Can a guy adjust this or is that something where cutting bolt handles and reattaching them is necessary

 

[xswanted]

I seriously doubt that a chamber done by Douglas would have this problem but a slight burr at the beginning of the chamber will do this. I had an inexperienced guy do some chambers for me and he didn't deburr them. The bolt would lift easily but not move rearward.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.
How does a guy debur?

 

[timeout]

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.
How does a guy debur?

With a tool like this: https://www.amazon.com/SHAVIV-Class...ocphy=9018914&hvtargid=pla-436452344543&psc=1

 

[bozo699]

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.
How does a guy debur?

When you open the bolt and it doesn’t come back can you carefully put a cleaning rod down the tube and with a little nudge does it pop right out?…
Wayne

 

[Walt Krafft]

Looking for any circumferential rings that would indicate a bad spot in the chamber and the amount of dirt on it.
I would never use that blacksmith tool to deburr a chamber. ScotchBright on a cleaning rod is my method.

 

[timeout]

Looking for any circumferential rings that would indicate a bad spot in the chamber and the amount of dirt on it.
I would never use that blacksmith tool to deburr a chamber. ScotchBright on a cleaning rod is my method.

I agree in most cases, especially if one can't use it carefully. However in my case the burr was more significant than scotchbright would remove.

 

[xswanted]

When you open the bolt and it doesn’t come back can you carefully put a cleaning rod down the tube and with a little nudge does it pop right out?…
Wayne

No I have to hit the bolt with a screwdriver handle or something similar.