Need a little help on a 223

[K redden]

Long story short. My brother and I have always had a difference of opinions in shooting. We will keep this under 800 yds. He likes his nice surgeon ,larue, ect. built guns. Bolt and gas guns , very fine guns And shoots only factory ammo , abm, lapua
Im a fan of custom built Dan Dowling dashers but have been known to have a smith build up a long throated 300 win mag Guns that come in about a 1/3 the price
Any how some times the big money guns out shoot me in various conditions. But he can rarely argue with groups in the teens and low twos. Only saying a gun doesnt need to be that accurate, and that it’s more about just being on target
So we each built a gun on a consecutive surgeon actions and proof barrels in 556. I took mine to Dan and he headed to his smith. We are limited to factory black hills 77g Otm ammo. These are our guns to battle with. No excuses just shooting.
Any how as I look at these groups it looks like it wants to shoot but just needs a little help. Some times it’ll put 2-3 in the same hole. Then get some fliers Bedding , seating depth. Heck I’d even shorten the barrel if I new it would put me on the perfect node.

 

[acloco]

Switch to black and white targets. Human eyes do not have a crisp edge on the lines of colored targets.

Turn the scope power down to 10-14x.

Don't sit on the scope for more than 10-15 seconds. Trust yourself and the tool. Breathe, exhale, squeeze near the bottom of the exhale.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I built a 223 and I shot some groups just like the ones in the picture.

I quickly found out that she hated being held tight, so I shoot her with only my
shoulder on the stock, no cheek weld no grip. No other rifle do I shoot like
that one.

This is off a bipod and rear bag.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

If you're limited to a specific factory ammo, can you are you allowed to alter seating depth? Run the Berger seating test.

 

[RegionRat]

Can you describe the barrel? What twist is your barrel, and can you share any details about how it was reamed?
Did your smith realize you planned to shoot factory ammo at magazine length?

..." Any how some times the big money guns out shoot me in various conditions. But he can rarely argue with groups in the teens and low twos. Only saying a gun doesnt need to be that accurate, and that it’s more about just being on target "...
BTW, your definition of accuracy and precision is reversed. If a gun hits targets, it is accurate. If it groups yet misses targets, it is only precise and not accurate.

Assuming you plan on sticking with factory Black Hills ammo... Have you played with a barrel tuner? Your gun and that ammo are not playing well together, so the less permanent test is with a tuner rather than cutting the bbl. If it still doesn't shoot well after that test, you are going to need to try hand loads.

ETA: How did his version perform?

 

[K redden]

Can you describe the barrel? What twist is your barrel, and can you share any details about how it was reamed?
Did your smith realize you planned to shoot factory ammo at magazine length?

..." Any how some times the big money guns out shoot me in various conditions. But he can rarely argue with groups in the teens and low twos. Only saying a gun doesnt need to be that accurate, and that it’s more about just being on target "...
BTW, your definition of accuracy and precision is reversed. If a gun hits targets, it is accurate. If it groups yet misses targets, it is only precise and not accurate.

Assuming you plan on sticking with factory Black Hills ammo... Have you played with a barrel tuner? Your gun and that ammo are not playing well together, so the less permanent test is with a tuner rather than cutting the bbl. If it still doesn't shoot well after that test, you are going to need to try hand loads.

ETA: How did his version perform?

1-8 twist proof Chamber was cut to match this cartridge. I let him know that would be the only thing shot out of the rifle. Just a little jump. Might try seating the bullets different, even though that might be cheating a little. Tuner might really help as I’ve never tried one.

 

[K redden]

I built a 223 and I shot some groups just like the ones in the picture.

I quickly found out that she hated being held tight, so I shoot her with only my
shoulder on the stock, no cheek weld no grip. No other rifle do I shoot like
that one.

This is off a bipod and rear bag.
View attachment 1311589

I had noticed this gun liked held a little light. And tried that a bit. That’s why I was wondering about bedding. Will go back to a light hold And try some more. Same setup as you. Bipod and bag. My dasher will group in the low twos with the exact bag and bipod. So it shouldn’t be me. But will change my hold a little. Might put a Harris under it as I’ve had some guns not like the atlas bipod.

 

[K redden]

I built a 223 and I shot some groups just like the ones in the picture.

I quickly found out that she hated being held tight, so I shoot her with only my
shoulder on the stock, no cheek weld no grip. No other rifle do I shoot like
that one.

This is off a bipod and rear bag.
View attachment 1311589

If mine shot like that I’d call it good. I’ve been threatening to pull some rounds down and load up some varget. But trying to be fair and have 5k rounds of this stuff. Just need to make it shoot

 

[Homerange]

I had noticed this gun liked held a little light. And tried that a bit. That’s why I was wondering about bedding. Will go back to a light hold And try some more. Same setup as you. Bipod and bag. My dasher will group in the low twos with the exact bag and bipod. So it shouldn’t be me. But will change my hold a little. Might put a Harris under it as I’ve had some guns not like the atlas bipod.

Ditch the bipod and front and rear bag the rifle instead. Set it up a little under the target and gently fall on the rifle to bring it onto the target. Shoot X arm if you must but better to hold the forend to keep recoil more uniform.
Adjust the trigger well down in pull to somewhere under 2lbs.

The rifle isn't even half the equation, you are most of it.

And more silly shit, use muffs even if you have a suppressor fitted as you'll likely shoot even better without the subconscious 'this might hurt my ears'.

Now go out and whip the bro's arse !

 

[Oso]

I like a fun competition....my brother and I both had a stock 17HMR that we would use to shoot gumballs off golf tees. It was a race to see who could shoot through their side and get to the middle gumball.

I am assuming you went with the Proof Carbon Wrapped barrels, but you mentioning willingness to shorten the barrel means that it is an all steel blank? I have seen/read enough range reports on the Proof Carbon barrels that indicate they are more of a 1MOA type barrel. The $$$$ price tag is for the weight reduction technology.... The addition of weight at end of barrel, suppressor or large muzzle break, most likely will impact harmonic.

Reasonable expectations - load development can improve any barrel's performance to a point. You just have to find the right combo.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Since your chamber was cut with 77 mag length ammo in mind… try seating them in from 2.250” down to 2.230”. I have found some Wylde chambers and bullets that the groups tightened up when they were shorter than mag length. Particularly H75 and Nosler 77’s. Not as much with a SMK or Lapua Scenar. The tangent ogive bullets usually don’t care about jump but I always check this now to get the tightest, roundest group.