Is it "really" 100 yards?

[Old Navy]

I’m betting all the contributors to this discussion are experiencing foul weather.

You are right. Mostly foul weather here also.

 

[Tempest]

Ditto, don't worry about a couple yards.

IMO, altitude is way more of concern at 1,000 yards. We typically test at our club at 690ft elevation. So shooting 6,680 ft at Raton NM for example is a significant difference.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Hell, I can't even see 1000 yards!!

 

[bsekf]

We have a competition on our 200 METER range, if you show up with a rifle sighted in for 200 YARDS, you lose! We don't allow "sighters". There is usually a 0.25 difference between 1st and 10th. If you are working up loads it makes no difference. But, if you are shooting for score, you better know the exact distance to the target.

 

[Aero]

There isn't a shooter on earth that could tell the diff between .02 MOA at 1K. Not even ME!!! LOL

Tell that to the "quarter minute all day out to a mile" crowd.

I had a guy yesterday tell me he has been shooting 1/4-1/2" groups @ 100 yards with his 22LR 1885 Winchester and 5x MVA scope. I bet he could tell that .02 moa difference!

 

[4xforfun]

Tell that to the "quarter minute all day out to a mile" crowd.

I had a guy yesterday tell me he has been shooting 1/4-1/2" groups @ 100 yards with his 22LR 1885 Winchester and 5x MVA scope. I bet he could tell that .02 moa difference!

LOL......they probably wouldn't know the diff between .25 and .02!!

 

[dellet]

Tell that to the "quarter minute all day out to a mile" crowd.

I had a guy yesterday tell me he has been shooting 1/4-1/2" groups @ 100 yards with his 22LR 1885 Winchester and 5x MVA scope. I bet he could tell that .02 moa difference!

Probably shooting handloads

 

[bsekf]

Those were one shot groups. The .5 one was when the bullet tumbled.

Be nice guys.... he might be one of the Schutzen group that shoot cast bullets off the bench at 100 and 200, only use one case and don't seat bullets in it. Just because you can see the bullet in air, doesn't mean they won't go in the same hole.

 

[dellet]

Those were one shot groups. The .5 one was when the bullet tumbled.

Be nice guys.... he might be one of the Schutzen group that shoot cast bullets off the bench at 100 and 200, only use one case and don't seat bullets in it. Just because you can see the bullet in air, doesn't mean they won't go in the same hole.

Full disclosure, I’m one of those guys. I also have the same basic rifle described as a 1/4 MOA shooter, a Miroku Low wall, so I’d say I have an idea of what he’s claiming.

I won’t call BS, but would still give him a ribbing without seeing targets. If he would have said he was shooting a CPA Stevens, I probably would believe him without proof.

For what it’s worth these were at 50 yards using iron sights. Once dialed in, dimes became boring targets.


At 100 yards dialing in was more difficult and I cheated using a nickel. Three shot groups are numbered. Took a few groups to connect, but general accuracy is displayed.


Maybe with a decent bench, rest, a target on a backer instead of nailed to a tree out in the woods, and something other than CCI Target ammo, I could have done better and shot those 1/4-1/2” groups described, or at least hit the nickel in less shots.


50 at the berm, 100 in the trees.


This was some random forum challenge to hit a dime at 100, with any centerfire in the least number of shots. I was allowed to play at 50 with with a rimfire and irons. They let me use a nickel at 100 after seeing what happened at 50.

A click adjustable scope or even a click adjustable sight would have made the transition from 50-100 easy. Even if it was more like 49-102 or something. (Trees just don't grow where you need them all the time.) Unknown distances and a Vernier scale sight, can take a few sighters. Probably took 10-12 to hit the nickel. Shooting groups is always easier than actually trying to hit something

I'm not saying I can compete with the big boys at 1000 yards, but I can have a lot of fun in my own back yard. A big part of that reason, is applying what the big kids do in something as simple as this. I'm sure a more serious shooter could have done better

Complaining that an incorrect 100 yard target distance that causes less than a 1" correction at 1000 yards, makes about as much sense as laughing at a guy who claims to be able to shoot 1/2 MOA groups at 100 with a decent factory rimfire.

I have always had more success working on what I or my rifle can do, instead of what they can't.

I should add that handloaded 22 LR as been a lively discussion among the Schuetzen crowd lately, so that comment could be true.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Wow, can of worms opened...

So 3 yards at 100 yards is a 0.03 difference. That would mean a 3% difference at any other given range. Using a .308 RPR shooting a 185gr Juggernaut at 2630fps (my training rifle, coincidentally) lets see what happens at 1000 yards - WITHOUT CORRECTION.

(0.03%)*(1000) = 30
1000+30=1030
The drop at 1000 yards using Strelok Pro (my primary shooting app) is 30.71 MOA
The drop at 1030 yards using Strelok Pro at 1030 is 32.25
32.25-30.71=0.54 MOA.
(0.54)*(1.047)*(10)=5.654 inches

Let's discuss an all-too-probable scenario. I show up at the range early in the morning of the day I want to shoot. I know that today's weather is forecasted at 92 degrees, but I did my work-up at 44 degrees. I stop by the sight-in board to do a quick check and I group slightly higher than usual, so I either hold bottom-of-plate on long shots, or do an actual zero adjustment. (Not wanting to change my zero stop, you can guess which one I choose). The first course-of-fire is a 12" diamond at 1020 yards. I plug in 1020 to Strelok and it tells me 31.73 MOA. Using the same math above I would have seen 30.15 MOA If I had calculated for a 103 yard zero. The bullet sails over the top of the target, most likely off-center because my wind holds aren't tuned in yet.

This actually happened. I went back to the range and found out exactly how it happened.

Now it's 7 months later and I am not in a hurry. If I would have known then what I know now, I may have had better results on that very important first course-of-fire and been much more confident on the following.

Lesson learned... Check your zero distance!

Did you actually use any software to validate this? And after did you shoot it?

You can plug in a 109 Berger with a 100yd zero and 110 yd zero. And you won’t get even 1” of difference at 1000yds.

The .3% off at 100 and therefore off everywhere is not true.

This is one of the reasons we use a 100yd zero. You can be anywhere from about 85yds to 115yds and it won’t change your data. (Rimfire is different yardage and such that matters).

Short answer: 100yd zero being off a few yards = excuse, not reality.

Scope tracking tests are different. But that’s another conversation.

 

[mike a]

How many people really know there true click value?

 

[Old Navy]

Ditto, don't worry about a couple yards.

IMO, altitude is way more of concern at 1,000 yards. We typically test at our club at 690ft elevation. So shooting 6,680 ft at Raton NM for example is a significant difference.

Exactly! Bigger difference than most of the other data that I enter into the JBM calculator. And it doesn't take several K difference.

 

[coj0502]

I true all my ballistic profiles with my Kilo 2400 it makes things pretty simple.

 

[Albany Mountain]

It’s going to be a long winter.

 

[mac86951]

You know, the other day, i had someone with targets on the right side of the backers; set-up on the left side of the range... Besides the obvious, which wasn't prevailing to the shooter; a nice way to get this shooter to change his/her set-up was to say, "you know, if you shoot that angle, you're really way off from 100y." Then following up with the whole, "by the way, safety issues... Seemed to get a good response from the "new" shooter without flat out scaring them off. Just food for thought, as we want to encourage common sense.

-Mac

 

[shooterjon]

For years I have done work ups and groups from the same benches and shooting to the same target boards at my local range. I was making adjustments to my ballistic tables for the upcoming season when I had a passing thought - "I wonder if it really is 100 yards?".

I measured a few mornings ago and lo-and-behold, 103 yards using the Vortex Razor HD 4000. Being a surveyor by trade I brought out a Trimble S9 and a prism and verified at 309.138 feet.

For the average Joe sighting in a hunting rifle, a rando plate banger, or a non-competitive shooter the distance wouldn't be as critical. When shooting past 600 or so yards it really shows up in the drop number!

Just wondering if you guys measure from the front edge of the stand,the middle of the stand or the back of the stand???

 

[Zero333]

my range measures from the end of the table. We have a 100 meter (109yards) 200 meter (218yards) and 300 meters (328yards) berms on one of the ranges, verified with my rangefinder. Then we have 100 YARD range with a 50 yard berm in the middle. Then we have Five 25 yard ranges for practicing pistols and Rimfire outside. Indoor pistol Range is 25 yards. Then we have a 45 yard go nuts kinda range and a 80 meter range you may set up as you wish as long as no one is set up in front of you. Then we have indoor air rifle 25m and archery. Also we have woods with decoys for archery and a few more things I forget.
My Bushnell rangefinder is right one the money out to those distances. I've compared my Bushnell G-Force DX 1300 at the 300 meter range with much higher end range finders and there was no difference. But I would not trust it beyond 600 yards in the woods to say the least.