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Straight Pull Actions

shoot4fun

Gold $$ Contributor
Okay, so it's cold and dreary outside, there are no matches that need immediate action in the loading room and all my barrels are spotless. I just finished reading yet another glowing review on the Savage Impulse and it got me thinking about the workability of such a thing for BR matches.
I know we can all cast our opinion; maybe some can even provide some facts on the pros and cons of such a thing at the bench for long range, short range or both. As @Alex Wheeler is well respected in the field of actions and what makes them tick I for one would like to hear his thoughts, experiences and pros and cons.
Of course I am not talking about the use of a Savage SP action but one made by the likes of BAT , Kelbly or Borden.
SO, gentlemen (and ladies), take your best shot!
PLEASE KEEP THE DISCUSSION CIVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Im always interested in taking the next step in this game, so I would never dismiss the idea. But, the only potential gain would be speed. Which would be important if it could do that. However, every straight pull I have handled required considerable force to run the bolt. The reason I put in the effort to time very action is because it disrupts the rifle less, which translates into less adjustment at the rest and a faster string. So if the action is stiffer to run it will disrupt the rifle more even if the bolt cycle requires less movement. Its kind of like the 3 lug vs 2 lug debate. Less movement of the bolt but it runs stiffer and disrupts the rifle more if everything is equal. Now if you could find a way to make one run with less effort it could be pretty good. But I bet a clicker in a straight pull would be pretty nasty. The extraction cam on a standard 2 lug bat for example has a lot of mechanical advantage. But Im no expert on straight pulls.
 
@Alex Wheeler the speed of a straight bolt is the main thing all reviews of the straight-bolt have in common and I've seen no review mention the bolt mechanical stiffness during operation. My thinking was that with additional speed a given, that a high quality and innovation driven company could make a straight-bolt actually disrupt the rifle less than a two or (especially) three lug action.
My thought also is, if this could happen, would be of an action adaptable for either us righties or those unfortunate lefties (tongue & cheek as my wife is a leftie). The Savage touts being able to switch the handle for RH or LH operation. Maybe a dual port that could be set for RH or LH ejection?
All this is just throwing poo at the wall to see what could or would be possible. Inspector Gadget comes to the range. ;)
 
All of the straight pulls are military or hunting rifles so they will not be complaining about disrupting the rifle. They are pretty stiff. And when you even see someone running one, it run pretty hard. You wont see them running them with one finger like a BR action. But your 100% right, IF you could find a way to make one run nice it would be an advantage. Its hard to beat physics though, doing the same work in a shorter stroke will require more effort if everything else is equal.
 
All of the straight pulls are military or hunting rifles so they will not be complaining about disrupting the rifle. They are pretty stiff. And when you even see someone running one, it run pretty hard. You wont see them running them with one finger like a BR action. But your 100% right, IF you could find a way to make one run nice it would be an advantage. Its hard to beat physics though, doing the same work in a shorter stroke will require more effort if everything else is equal.
Being immediately suspect of action strength versus the two or three-lug design was my initial concern.
It's possible the only way to get the straight bolt disruption free is by weakening the lockup.
That would be a very big no-no.
 
i have no idea how these things work but what keeps the bolt from shooting straight back into your face? this "stiffness" is probably required to keep this from happening.
 
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I own a Heym SR30 which is a straight pull hunting rifle. Here is info on the action.

Next, with the safety released, the bolt can be pushed forward to 85°, which results in a couple of things: first, this sets the firing pin and trigger mechanism and second, it locks six radial hardened ball bearings that act as locking lugs protruding from the bolt body and locking into the action?s side walls.

This unique design assigns proportionate pressure to each ball bearing, ensuring even lock-up pressure that helps accuracy and makes for a strong bolt lock-up.
In fact, Heym tests its actions to more than 110,000psi pressure to ensure integrity, and when you consider that most cartridges, such as the .308, operate at 55,000psi, you can see how safe the margin of error is.
 
Haven't seen the Savage, but I have shot a Heym, with the same/similar ball bearing action. Pretty underwhelming. The Blazer action is nicer, but I'll stick to my Barnards and Tikka's thanks. The Savage is a nice concept, using a barrel extension in an alloy receiver ( I wonder who thought of that?). At the price point, I certainly won't be placing an order for one.
 
I own a Heym SR30 which is a straight pull hunting rifle. Here is info on the action.

Next, with the safety released, the bolt can be pushed forward to 85°, which results in a couple of things: first, this sets the firing pin and trigger mechanism and second, it locks six radial hardened ball bearings that act as locking lugs protruding from the bolt body and locking into the action?s side walls.

This unique design assigns proportionate pressure to each ball bearing, ensuring even lock-up pressure that helps accuracy and makes for a strong bolt lock-up.
In fact, Heym tests its actions to more than 110,000psi pressure to ensure integrity, and when you consider that most cartridges, such as the .308, operate at 55,000psi, you can see how safe the margin of error is.
I would be curious to see just how far Savage went with pressure testing. Also, as I have no hands-on with the Impulse, would like to see just how much force is required to run the bolt.
Straight bolts have been around for many years so the concept isn't new. IIRC, one of the advantages to the design in Europe is one can switch calibers on a single receiver in order to get around European laws on ownership. The Impulse seems to not be as tinker friendly as the normal Savage bolt gun.
 
First time with the Savage Impulse; came away massively unimpressed.
Bulky, clunky to operate, confusing "push here, sometimes" button on the rear, etc.
Ties with the Federal 30 Super Carry cartridge for most useless solution in search of a problem.
But, I have heard the same said of my opinions.

(Added) I load and shoot for K31's, too.
 
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First time with the Savage Impulse; came away massively unimpressed.
Bulky, clunky to operate, confusing "push here, sometimes" button on the rear, etc.
Ties with the Federal 30 Super Carry cartridge for most useless solution in search of a problem.
But, I have heard the same said of my opinions.
I had no illusion that the Impulse would be other than, well, Savage. Not downing Savage in particular but we all know there are big differences in how productions actions feel compared to the "finer things".
We Yanks despised the 6.5's for decades. Then came the wave created by the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Not sure there would ever be that wave for straight pulls. It does seem that even the elite action producers would have a hard time with improving the design and function, let alone a daunting task of getting us to buy them in numbers. It would probably be way more expensive and just that alone would mean the merits would have to immeasurable.
PS You and I are on the same page with the 30 SC.
 
Now if you could find a way to make one run with less effort it could be pretty good. But I bet a clicker in a straight pull would be pretty nasty. The extraction cam on a standard 2 lug bat for example has a lot of mechanical advantage. But Im no expert on straight pulls.

IME, primary extraction is the main weakness in straight-pulls, whether traditional (Mannlicher, Ross, or Schmidt service rifles) or modern UK-legal straight-pulls based on semi-auto rifles, primarily AR-15 or 10, more recently US manufactured LMT jobs. The AR-15s in 223 and 6.8SPC (and I'm told by aficionados, the 22 Valkyrie) work really well as long as they stick to such smaller case cartridges and keep pressures down. I had a UK built AR-15 in 223 and I could tell pretty well just what pressure level my handloads were running at according to how easily you could start the bolt moving. Up to around the levels that QuickLOAD said produced 52-54,000 psi, it was a really easy / sweet operator. Then as pressures rose, so did the effort needed. The CSR people used to shoot a lot of 5.56X45mm BAe RO Radway Green SS109 pattern stuff, but when I tried a couple of cartons, it was really hard work opening the bolt even with a great big side mounted operating handle bolted onto the bolt carrier body. It was a fantastically good shooter for a basically military rifle, albeit with a heavy Lilja stainless match barrel. I was disappointed with any load that couldn't make half-MOA with five shots loaded with the 80gn SMK at 100 yards, and had a good few individual third inch groups, a quarter or less not so commonly. I even shot it at 1,000 in the early days of F-Class when it was still big targets, although the butts crew more often than not failed to pull the target as the bullet was subsonic by then and the tiny holes didn't show up clearly. The straight pull ARs are exactly that as you only pull, chambering done as on the gas powered version by the recoil spring. The old military jobs are really pull-push, being manual both ways, as is the Savage, and much as I enjoyed shooting them, I always thought they were a bit 'clunky' compared to the best of the turnbolt actions. You can't shoot the 303 Ross for instance nearly as fast as you can a really smooth SMLE shooting the same cartridge. You'd regularly see Schmidt users banging the bolt knob with the heel of the hand to ensure full lock-up on chambering a round. That was with handloads with well used brass anyway - genuine modern RUAG made GP11 7.5X55 chambers more easily

For the modern straight-pulls there are modifications that introduce primary extraction through the bolt handle swivelling through an arc against the bolt and this pulling the case a little out of the chamber before it hits a stop and becomes a non-cam backwards pull on the the bolt. The German Blaser rifles have this. I believe the Savage has such a mechanism, but to be honest, I've not given it much attention. Traditionally, straight-pull sporting rifles never become main market, and many designs don't survive that long at all. Their USPs are often as in the Blaser R-series straight pull through facilitating quick DIY barrel change, so six factory barrels / cartridges for six purposes on one stock and action.

We'll just have to see with the Savage, and now the company has introduced a pricey chassis stock 'PRS model'. By the time that Savage rifles reach the UK, they've become very expensive indeed, especially the fancier / nicer models. Not at all like the early days of the LRPVs and F-Class, FTR, BR, Palma etc rifles using the PTA action. We have lots in use in FTR for instance in the UK, but very few of them bought recently, and most now on their second or even third barrel usually threaded and headspaced up the traditional way without the barrel nut.
 
Im certainly not against it. And something like a rack and pinion comes to mind to try to give them some more mechanical advantage. Just not sure that it will ever equal the smoothness of a worked over 2 lug like a Bat for example. But I sure would like it to. Any little thing will improve aggs and thats what Im interested in.
 
I own a Heym SR30 which is a straight pull hunting rifle. Here is info on the action.

Next, with the safety released, the bolt can be pushed forward to 85°, which results in a couple of things: first, this sets the firing pin and trigger mechanism and second, it locks six radial hardened ball bearings that act as locking lugs protruding from the bolt body and locking into the action?s side walls.

This unique design assigns proportionate pressure to each ball bearing, ensuring even lock-up pressure that helps accuracy and makes for a strong bolt lock-up.
In fact, Heym tests its actions to more than 110,000psi pressure to ensure integrity, and when you consider that most cartridges, such as the .308, operate at 55,000psi, you can see how safe the margin of error is.
Interesting thread,

The Heym is nice to put it mildly for an off the shelf rifle. The extraction would be an issue on a clicker, also there is an additional amount of forward force which actually cocks the firing mechanism. I feel this would disrupt the rifle as well. I would bet the Heym action could possibly be refined enough to be a capable/suitable BR action, but I am not an engineer. I have not seen the Savage up closed, but I do not think it is anywhere similar to the Heym.

Just my .02
Tim
 

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