Bolt opens hard, Rem700

[novice]

I was perusing this site recently and stumbled upon a video of Vera Carter firing a sleek rifle at Fairchance.

Women Of Benchrest

This this is a two pronged post: learning to post a picture and call attention to some of the ladies in benchrest.

forum.accurateshooter.com

I was amazed by the effortless cycling of the bolt with just her forefinger. (Or maybe she has a really strong forefinger.)

When I open the bolt of my Rem700 (6mm-250), I have to hold the rifle firmly with my left hand to keep it on the bags. Tracking in the bags between shots is something that I have not yet experienced.
This difficult opening occurs after a shot AND after releasing the firing pin on an empty chamber. It's not a pressure problem.
The firing pin spring has 28 coils (It came with the GreTan fluted firing pin, if I recall correctly.), and today I lapped the contact between the cocking piece and the camming face on the bolt body. And cleaned the lapping compound off all the parts.
Can I reasonably expect a Remington to operate as effortlessly as Vera's rifle? How can I do that?

I also wondered what she is doing with her left hand to operate the front bag, but that is a topic for another day.

 

[Mark W]

No amount of work will ever get a Remington action to run as smoothly as a custom action from BAT, Borden, Kelbly, etc….. You can spend the cost of a custom on Remington and it still won’t get there.

 

[jelenko]

I've had two Remington 700's that were almost as smooth as a broken in Pierce with the melonited finish.

The cocking ramp and the leading edges on the bolt in the Rem had to be worked along with cycling the action with polishing compound for ~ 500 cycles. But, it was very, very close in feel.

So, maybe true that a Rem won't be as smooth, but the difference is tiny.

I should add that it's my understanding that the hard bolt lift could be from something other that what I just described. I've read about those causes, but have no experience with them - best if others make comments.

 

[JFrank]

Extraction timing maybe ?

 

[joshb]

Try a Tikka sometime. Remington vs Custom= Ford vs Ferrari.

 

[Link]

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[novice]

SPJ said: "Extraction timing maybe ?"

Thanks. It's the force required to lift the bolt handle, before the bolt touches the extraction cam.
I will measure the spring force tomorrow. The spring is closed on both ends.

 

[DaveTooley]

Hard lift is caused by friction, spring weight and the angle on the bolt camming surface. Adjustments to all three can be made.

 

[BoydAllen]

"Can I reasonably expect a Remington to operate as effortlessly as Vera's rifle?"
No

 

[novice]

DaveTooley said: " Hard lift is caused by friction, spring weight and the angle on the bolt camming surface. Adjustments to all three can be made."
My spring measures 17 pounds, iffen I can trust my 7 dollar luggage scale. FP indent is robust. The spring IS short.
I will polish inside the bolt.
Another question: Should the flange on the front end of the FP touch the inside of the bolt?

Thanks

 

[BoydAllen]

DaveTooley said: " Hard lift is caused by friction, spring weight and the angle on the bolt camming surface. Adjustments to all three can be made."
My spring measures 17 pounds, iffen I can trust my 7 dollar luggage scale. FP indent is robust. The spring IS short.
I will polish inside the bolt.
Another question: Should the flange on the front end of the FP touch the inside of the bolt?

Thanks

If you mean when the bolt is uncocked with nothing in the chamber, yes. That is what is supposed to stop the firing pins forward motion when the chamber is empty, not the cocking piece. IMO Remingtons can be improved, but I have never seen one that was as good as the best custom actions. One reason for this is that some of the customs have the option of a roller cocking piece. BAT developed this to lower the bolt lift of their three lug actions but went on to offer it on a number of their two lug actions. Some years back, I asked Jim Farley about how much reduction in bolt lift the roller cocking piece on his then new Black Widow action was worth. He told me about 20% When I tested the lift on my Viper, that is very similar to a Panda, if memory serves it was about 5 lb. I do not think that you could get a Remington down to around 4 with a proper amount of spring weight.

 

[novice]

Thanks. Let me clarify my last question. Should the cylindrical surface of the FP flange touch the bore of the bolt? That is, would it be OK to reduce the diameter of the FP flange to clear the bore? The FP should be guided by the FP tunnel in the nose of the bolt.
I understand that my Remington will never imitate a BR action, but I would like to reduce bolt lift noticeably.

 

[BoydAllen]

Thanks. Let me clarify my last question. Should the cylindrical surface of the FP flange touch the bore of the bolt? That is, would it be OK to reduce the diameter of the FP flange to clear the bore? The FP should be guided by the FP tunnel in the nose of the bolt.
I understand that my Remington will never imitate a BR action, but I would like to reduce bolt lift noticeably.

The problem with doing what you have described is that the the tip of the pin does not stay in the hole in the bolt face as it goes from cocked to fired. Reducing the diameter of the flange would create more "noise" during firing pin fall that could degrade accuracy in applications where the rest of the rifle was optimized for accuracy. If you disassemble your rifle's striker assembly and reassemble it without the spring you can investigate the level of friction of the flange on the interior of the bolt. Other than a slight polishing that did not remove material, I would do noting to increase the diameter of the ID of the bolt in the area that the flange cycles in, or decrease the diameter of the flange. Something that I have considered to perfect the centering of the pin, that might also reduce friction is to make a washer up that closely fits the pin shank behind the flange and which is a closer fit, slightly larger than the flange. This would be trapped between the flange and the spring, and made of some self lubricating material like Delrin.

 

[novice]

BoydAllen said: "Something that I have considered to perfect the centering of the pin,"
Interesting idea. Thanks.

 

[LCazador]

SPJ said: "Extraction timing maybe ?"

Thanks. It's the force required to lift the bolt handle, before the bolt touches the extraction cam.
I will measure the spring force tomorrow. The spring is closed on both ends.

Have you replaced the original spring? The Remington springs are convoluted and can drag on the inside of the bolt.

 

[David Milisock]

I was perusing this site recently and stumbled upon a video of Vera Carter firing a sleek rifle at Fairchance.

Women Of Benchrest

This this is a two pronged post: learning to post a picture and call attention to some of the ladies in benchrest.

forum.accurateshooter.com

I was amazed by the effortless cycling of the bolt with just her forefinger. (Or maybe she has a really strong forefinger.)

When I open the bolt of my Rem700 (6mm-250), I have to hold the rifle firmly with my left hand to keep it on the bags. Tracking in the bags between shots is something that I have not yet experienced.
This difficult opening occurs after a shot AND after releasing the firing pin on an empty chamber. It's not a pressure problem.
The firing pin spring has 28 coils (It came with the GreTan fluted firing pin, if I recall correctly.), and today I lapped the contact between the cocking piece and the camming face on the bolt body. And cleaned the lapping compound off all the parts.
Can I reasonably expect a Remington to operate as effortlessly as Vera's rifle? How can I do that?

I also wondered what she is doing with her left hand to operate the front bag, but that is a topic for another day.

No, regardless of what you spend. The question is what is it worth to you?

That of course depends on what you do. I love the bench rest and competition shooters, they have shouldered the burden (lots of bucks) of developing many of the technologies that have progressed shooting. God bless them! With that said as a field shooter I wouldn't screw with the bolt unless it malfunctions. If it bothers me if it's stiff I use some lapping compound drink some Joe and work the action for a bit.

How well do my rifles shoot? Of the 6 that I regularly take into the field 2 are varmint guns regularly shooting about 1 1/8" at 300 yards. One is a 35 magnum McGowan built, it shoots as well as the varmint guns.

Two are medium game rifles, sporterized WWII rifles, 1 scoped, 06, shooting about 1 1/2" at 300 and 1 with iron sights, 8 x 57JS shooting a bit above 1 1/4" at 100 yards, I've taken game at 200 yards. Then 1 iron sighted sporterized 98 Mauser dangerous game 450 magnum that shoots a ragged 3 shot hole at 50 yards. I can attest the 500 grains at 2,000 FPS after a few shots stresses the shooter.

Is that good enough for what you want? Only you can judge but to get better then my best 3 you will SPEND time and money. I'll never criticize that choice just informing you of the facts.

Have fun!

 

[novice]

LCazador said: "Have you replaced the original spring?"​

Yes. The new, lighter spring came with the GreTan fluted FP. Also, I bushed the FP to accomodate the longer nose and smaller diameter (.062) of the GreTan FP.
Further story about bolt opening and closing: While I was cycling the bolt today, I observed that the required closing force is about 50-75 percent of opening force, which is difficult to measure.

 

[jelenko]

Here's another thread on reducing bolt lift force.

Rem 700 bolt lift improvement

Like to hear about what you guys do to improve the bolt lift in a rem 700 action. I know timing is very important but after that what can be done to slick things up a little bit more.

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[novice]

David Milisock: Thanks for your comments. I admire your shooting skill; your groups beyond 100 yards are enviable. How hard is your bolt lift? ​

 

[novice]

I appreciate your comments.
After I started this thread, I searched extensively for ways to reduce bolt lift. I previously lapped the cocking piece against the cocking ramp in the bolt. I also sanded inside the bolt body with emery cloth on a rod. I sharpied the FP flange, FP nose, and bolt nose and cycled the action thru 20 snaps. The flange and nose showed no rubs; however, the bolt nose made contact with the barrel counterbore over about 90 degrees. Also, there were two radial scratches, about 90 degrees, on the bolt body where the bolt contacted a burr on the magazine port during rotation. (I have a single-shot loading platform epoxied into the bottom of the receiver.) I sanded the interfering edges to eliminate that scratching. I sanded inside the bolt shroud, both ends, to permit smoother travel of the FP on the front and cocking piece on the back.
As a result, bolt lift has become noticeably lighter, but not nearly light enough to lift with my forefinger.
The locking lugs are very smooth on both bolt and receiver (trued on lathe and lapped ala LaBounty), but that is where the resistance seems to be.
Do any of you know what the slickest grease is? I am using multi-purpose auto grease.
I might should pull the barrel and open the counterbore another 0.010" to eliminate that rub.