7.62x39/30-30 alternative?

[ebb]

I agree the 30 rem AR had much appeal to me. But as you say it is gone.

 

[Thauglor]

Using h4895 you can reduce loads down to 60% of the max charge. The 308 loaded down does sound the best, has a few points going for it: can always buy factory ammo, bullet selection and resale value if you ever decide to part with it.

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

 

[Oso]

I just did this analysis and the 2 finalists are 6.5 Grendel and 300HAM'R. The 6.5 Grendel is a great round and proven accuracy and long distance capability. The recently introduced 300 HAM'R (SAAMI approved in 2020) uses the exact same components and rifle setup as 300BO, but it is 300-400 fps faster with same weight projectiles. I was surprised to discover that the 300HAM'R is as fast as 6.5 Grendel, with the added benefit of bullets from 95gr-150gr. Initially (past copule of years) I have dismissed the 300HAM'R as hype and just dismissed it as another marketing gimmick until I read the 300HAM'R thread... Bill Wilson (Wilson Combat) is a active contributor throughout the thread, frequently responding to questions and asking opinions. The thread is now 72 pages long. Once the manufacturers are able to return to normal production, I suspect that this will become a very popular caliber with complete rifles and ammunition offered by major manufacturers.
https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7506626/56

I built a Howa Mini (6.5 Grendel) for myself that shoots 1/2" or better. The 300HAM'R thread really caught my attention so I just ordered a barrel from Wilson Combat to convert an AR15 (300BO).

If you are thinking about going with a bolt action then the both the CZ527 and Howa Mini are right-sized for the job with an 18"-20" barrel. From the standpoint of customer service, functionality and aftermarket parts then CZ is the clean winner.

 

[Thauglor]

I just did this analysis and the 2 finalists are 6.5 Grendel and 300HAM'R. The 6.5 Grendel is a great round and proven accuracy and long distance capability. The recently introduced 300 HAM'R (SAAMI approved in 2020) uses the exact same components and rifle setup as 300BO, but it is 300-400 fps faster with same weight projectiles. I was surprised to discover that the 300HAM'R is as fast as 6.5 Grendel, with the added benefit of bullets from 95gr-150gr. Initially (past copule of years) I have dismissed the 300HAM'R as hype and just dismissed it as another marketing gimmick until I read the 300HAM'R thread... Bill Wilson (Wilson Combat) is a active contributor throughout the thread, frequently responding to questions and asking opinions. The thread is now 72 pages long. Once the manufacturers are able to return to normal production, I suspect that this will become a very popular caliber with complete rifles and ammunition offered by major manufacturers.
https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7506626/56

I built a Howa Mini (6.5 Grendel) for myself that shoots 1/2" or better. The 300HAM'R thread really caught my attention so I just ordered a barrel from Wilson Combat to convert an AR15 (300BO).

If you are thinking about going with a bolt action then the both the CZ527 and Howa Mini are right-sized for the job with an 18"-20" barrel. From the standpoint of customer service, functionality and aftermarket parts then CZ is the clean winner.

I looked on WCs page about the 300 HAMR, they don't use the same bullets in their comparison. In fact, I think it is on purpose, how easy would it be to load the same Sierra bullet in 300BO and their HAMR for apples to apples comparison. They had to go out of their way not to use the same bullets. Plus nothing is free, something has to give to get 400fps extra velocity over a 300BO.

 

[Minshooter]

The 300 HAM'R is to the 300BO as the .357 Magnum is to the .38 Special +P.
For me, even ignoring the velocity gains, the most important advantage of the 300 HAM'R is
the absolute impossibility of chambering and firing a HAM'R in a .223/5.56 AR.
You don't have to look far to find examples of blown up 5.56 AR's that tried to fire a 300 Blackout.

 

[Twicepop]

Go with the Ham'r, it duplicates the 30-30 and can be/is made from 223 brass. It's not an issue in a bolt gun, but in a AR type of package, there's very little metal surrounding the brass on the any cartridge derived from the 7.62X39 case. This was an issue with the first generation of Grendels.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

There's some great suggestions there - but most don't address the issue of running from a Savage internal magazine. So rule out the x39 cases without major alterations to the action, and probably the 223 based rounds for the same reason. And the BR's - possible, but probably feed issues ( never tried it, so I'm guessing - don't shoot me) Rimmed cartridges - please...just for lever guns. The 30 TC ( 30 Creedmoor) - why not, but it doesn't do anything that the 308 doesn't do better, and probably little factory brass available. I agree with the earlier poster that the bog standard 243 will work- and so would a 6/6.5 Creedmoor, And the 300 Savage, 250 Savage, and anything else that has a 308 bolt face and holds 35-40 grains of Varget.
BTW = I love my Grendel, in a Howa. Great little carry rifle.

 

[SEM]

308 win IMP reduced loads for now real easy to accommodate lots of data available Redding makes the dies I use them for my 307 IMP, later heat them up

 

[Oso]

I looked on WCs page about the 300 HAMR, they don't use the same bullets in their comparison. In fact, I think it is on purpose, how easy would it be to load the same Sierra bullet in 300BO and their HAMR for apples to apples comparison. They had to go out of their way not to use the same bullets. Plus nothing is free, something has to give to get 400fps extra velocity over a 300BO.

I wasn't a fan of all the patent BS that Alexander Arms had on the 6.5 Grendel, so I ended up going with the 300BO at that time. When Wilson Combat came out with the 300HAM'R, it just seemed like another name grab/relabel job of the existing 300BO. My opinion/bias was reinforced by what seems like some "Apples-Oranges" comparisons of performance results that I am sure I harped on in a post or two.

After wading through all 72 pages of the 300 HAM'R thread on Texas Hunting Forum over Labor Day weekend, I have come to realize that the very points of comparison that I "cried wolf" actually had a legitimate basis and weren't just some marketing pageantry.

1) Different length barrel used for reported velocities wasn't a marketing strategy, but rather results from the designated barrel length specified under SAAMI approval for each caliber. It so happens that the SAAMI barrel lengths are different with 300BO (16"), 300 HAM'R (18"), and 6.5 Grendel (24").
2) Different bullets used when comparing 300HAM'R and 300BO are result of the two cartridges' having different case lengths requiring different bullet profiles/shapes in order to fit within the 2.26" magazine length restriction.
> 300BO's case is short in order to fit the extremely long 190gr-230gr subsonic bullets in the 2.26" mag length restriction. As result the supersonic bullets (95gr-125gr) for 300BO have to be very long to meet the mag length so they tend to be long conical/pointy shaped.
> 300HAM'R case length is 1/4" longer than the 300BO. This means that the popular supersonic bullets for 300BO are too long. The 300HAM'R uses shorter, squattier bullets to fit within the 2.26" mag length restriction. When you read the thread you'll see posts of guys pulling/grinding-off the polymer tips from popular 300BO bullets in an attempt to use in 300HAM'R while fitting within the mag length limitation.
> Comparisons are of factory ammunition available to market (not handloads) so not necessarily going to have same bullets offered in factory ammunition at time of comparison.
3) 300HAM'R velocity claims are legitimate as reported by numerous unaffiliated hunters taking into account different barrel lengths.

I think the most comparable bullet is the 125gr TNT. Wilson Combat is currently producing the 125gr TNT ammunition (2,525fps from 18" barrel) whereas Hodgon lists 300BO load at 2,200fps (max). My 300BO (16" AR15) is 2,100fps and my CZ527 (18") at 2,200fps with same load, which is below the max load so maybe pick up another 100fps if increase the charge.

Here is the load data https://www.wilsoncombat.com/300-hamr/

I have no affiliation with Wilson Combat and am not a fanboy. Writing this has required me to eat crow on my previous negative opinions. In my CZ527 bolt rifle, where I can load stout charges (exceeding AR15 pressures) and also ability to load bullets very long without the 2.26" mag length restriction (additional powder capacity), I can can almost duplicate the 300HAM'R. However, I can not do this in a AR15, whereas the 300 HAM'R does... How much more can you squeeze out of 300HAM'R in a bolt rifle. After reading the thread I came to the conclusion that it was worth the time to buy a barrel and swap/convert an existing AR15 to try it out.

 

[drop_point]

I've had good luck with the .300 BO out to 250 yards. I wouldn't take it any further. Nosler 120gr BTs do an awesome job on whitetail. Its also fun to get magazine-fed subsonics with a suppressor.

 

[JSH]

I have played with the 30-30 and 30x221 side by side in years past. Saying they are equal makes me chuckle. Go over a 130–140 bullet and see the difference.
I wouldn’t skip over the 350Legend as a factory offering.
The 30-223 is doable, and if one could obtain some of the 223 Basic brass would be an easy project.

 

[Tommie]

30 remington or 30/30 ardvark , nothing but a 30/30 improved with the rim cut to 473 . 307 win if your goin to hotrod it , but then just go bigger , the 30 br in any configuration is great , short , and great brass is available.

Totally forgot about the 30 Remington. Excellent answer

 

[mattri]

Is brass available for the 30 Rem?

 

[Sky Hunter]

Call me old school but I'd go for 7x57 mauser. Huge number of potential loads, common bullet size, modest recoil and good accuracy. I've got three in that caliber and just took delivery of a Rossler custom from Austria.... https://www.titan6.com/en/konfigurator/titan-3-_-titan-6
Weighs around 6.5lbs with wood stock but without scope and you can buy extra barrels in different calibers for easy change. Mine shot 1/2 moa out of the box with basic factory loads.....

 

[Oso]

I have played with the 30-30 and 30x221 side by side in years past. Saying they are equal makes me chuckle. Go over a 130–140 bullet and see the difference.
I wouldn’t skip over the 350Legend as a factory offering.
The 30-223 is doable, and if one could obtain some of the 223 Basic brass would be an easy project.

I too have been chasing/stretching the legs on my 300BO (aka 30-221)... the short case just lacks the powder capacity. I believe this is where the 300HAM'R solves this issue. Unlike the 300BO, it can actually boast the claim to being more powerful than 30-30, and just simple as 300BO to form cases from 223 brass. I'm not getting rid of my 300BO, but expanding my power/range on a dedicated hunting rifle. Here piggy, piggy, piggy!

Popular AR15 cartridge comparisons (16" Barrel)
.223 77gr Fed HPBT-M 2485fps
.300 BLK 135gr Horn FTX 2085fps
.300 BLK 150gr Fed Fusion 1910fps
300 HAM'R 135gr Horn FTX 2408fps
300 HAM'R 150gr Speer Bonded 2293fps
7.62x39 Rem 125gr Rem Core Lokt 2325fps
.30-30 Rem 150gr Rem Core Lokt 2269fps
.350 Legend 150gr Win Extreme Point 2183fps

 

[senderoll]

7x30 waters. Enough said

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

In a good bolt rifle, I can shoot 115-125 grain bullets at 3,000fps with a 30 Major(grendel). Stout load but doable in a good bolt rifle.
Max for a standard ar15 is about 2650fps with a 16 in bbl. with the same weight bullets.

 

[Thauglor]

Call me old school but I'd go for 7x57 mauser. Huge number of potential loads, common bullet size, modest recoil and good accuracy. I've got three in that caliber and just took delivery of a Rossler custom from Austria.... https://www.titan6.com/en/konfigurator/titan-3-_-titan-6
Weighs around 6.5lbs with wood stock but without scope and you can buy extra barrels in different calibers for easy change. Mine shot 1/2 moa out of the box with basic factory loads.....

You obviously didn't read the thread or OP's post about max length of the cartridge...

 

[FNSafari]

Billy Stevens built a mod 7 in 30BR about 18yrs ago for my Grandson. He shoots 125 grain Ballistic Tips and has accounted for many deer, hogs, and coyotes.

Butch
That’s a great bullet for whitetail deer and smaller big game. My wife has used it successfully on whitetail in a 308. accurate and extremely effective. It’s a fine reduced recoil combo for young hunters and ladies. Much overlooked. That said it’s not imo a big deer bullet and certainly not anything bigger. I’ve heard the Sierra 130 gr pro hunter is good also but have no experience with it other than on paper targets.

 

[Walt Krafft]

My vote is for the 300 Ham'R. Good balistics for deer and hogs. Factory ammo is available. Will feed from 223 magazines no problem.