I have, to now, simply stayed with the standard 16 inch twist for 22LR and it has worked well. I have a CZ 452 which, while it is reasonably accurate out to 100 meters, it is not nearly as good as my other rifles and, at longer ranges, it actually keyholes so, I'm thinking of re-barreling it. I am contemplating going with a 14 or even a thirteen twist. Has anyone worked with a slightly faster twist for a 22LR and what were your results? My plan is to get a gain twist which starts at 18 and finishes at 13 or fourteen at 24" but, for the purposes of this discussion, we can ignore the gain twist part. WH
22rf twist rates
- Thread starter Will Henry
- Start date
That’s an interesting question Will. I’m curious if you pull a few bullets from those rounds that were keyholing so you can measure their length, and then use one of the stability calculators to see what twist would be recommended.
I doubt it's the twist rate as I shoot my 16 twist 18" Vudoo to 500 yards no problem. Have shot on paper at 200 and 300 and no key holing. I know Vudoo has done some fast twist in the 8-9 twist area for the longer solid bullets. They also shoot standard ammo through them I bet if you got a new barrel in 16 twist you would be fine with standard rimfire ammo. Could just be an issue with that particular barrel.
I seriously doubt that the 1:16 twist is the problem. This has been the standard twist since Hitler was a corporal and if it was really problematic it surely would've surfaced 'way before now. I remember reading awhile back that Vudoo has done some experimental work with faster twists and got the impression that there was no improvement until it got down to somewhere around 1:8-9 as Rob01 said, but if memory serves I don't think the author was selling to commit to recommending that even then. There may be something wrong with your barrel (IME on rf rifles if there is a barrel problem it's usually with the crown). I have 3 benchrest quality rf rifles and a Vudoo V22. The only one that doesn't have a 1:16 twist is a Suhl, and it's 1:17. Many Suhls, from what I've heard, have a 1:19. No key holing in any of them.
It's been the standard twist since before the Nazi dictator was born.
There is every chance the issue with the 452 is not the twist or perhaps, this barrel is twisted a little slow. It shoots reasonably well at 100 but with a few more flyers than one would expect and the flyers fly further out. At 300, it won't reliably hit a 4 ft square piece of plywood. Maybe I should measure the twist! Doesn't matter though; it's going to get a new barrel in any case. Both of the other match 22's, one a custom barrel (16 twist), the other a set back Model 52 Winchester, shoot well to 300. Intellectually, I know a 16 twist is just fine but, since spinning bullets a little faster seldom hurts, I figured to give it a try. I know I'm no innovator so figured others had tried and I would ask what experiences they might have had. WH
Over on rimfire central there have been a few 452 owners that got barrels like that. Depends on how bad the flyers are wether or not Cz will repair or replace. Some just got a letter saying it was within spec.
They won't get the chance on this one. I've already decided to replace the barrel. Just not sure what I'll replace it with yet. The slightly quicker gain twist is appealing to me just to be different. WH
Mostly, what I have found is, diverging from the norm usually just results in a "well, that works too". I've had just a few cases where I felt I had really made a choice which made a difference. I suspect this will be the case here as well. I am going to discuss the use of the gain twist in a rimfire with the barrel maker. I know he likes making them for centerfires (I have some of these)but usually makes uniform twist rimfire barrels. He also prefers to make rimfire barrels with a left hand twist. He admits this may be superstition as much as science but his best barrel was a left hand twist.
By the way, this maker makes a lot of barrels for schuetzen rifle competition and is also a great experimenter. WH
By the way, this maker makes a lot of barrels for schuetzen rifle competition and is also a great experimenter. WH
SGW Gunsmith
"Accipere non casus-Virga Bis"
It's been stated and proven that if one were to go up, or down, 1:17 or 1:15 twist rate, the difference is negligible.
I have barrel liners with 1:20 twist rate that are recommended for rimfire rifles that only use .22 Short ammunition.
The guy I would query about .22 rimfire twist rate is Dan Lilja, he makes some very GOOD .22 rimfire barrels, and I would go with the recommendation in Post #11, check the bore to see if it's leaded up. The land height in .22 rimfire barrels is only from 0.0020 to 0.0025, so can be easily leaded up if gone without cleaning for too long.
I have barrel liners with 1:20 twist rate that are recommended for rimfire rifles that only use .22 Short ammunition.
The guy I would query about .22 rimfire twist rate is Dan Lilja, he makes some very GOOD .22 rimfire barrels, and I would go with the recommendation in Post #11, check the bore to see if it's leaded up. The land height in .22 rimfire barrels is only from 0.0020 to 0.0025, so can be easily leaded up if gone without cleaning for too long.
It's your time and money so if you want to do it then have at it. Sometimes you find a difference but sometimes you waste money. Good luck.
I was hoping for some info on what people have found with a faster twist but it would seem to be less common than I would have thought. The CZ barrel is not leaded and has shown no indication it does so. I have fired around 5000 rounds through it and on the silhouette range, it does alright but will occasionally cost me a point or two. On the other hand, the flyers might give me one or two I would have missed! My other two smallbore M-S rifles, both of which I built, shoot much, much better. Those are both 16 twist. One a Gaillard barrel (button rifled), on a Model 75 Winchester, and the other the original Model 52c barrel which I turned down. set back, and re-chambered (it had been shot a lot and was already blemished on the outside so I didn't feel bad about the mods). I built both stocks as well. WH
The 16 twist is a proven twist with 40 gr lead bullets but that may not be true of green bullets. Which is the op trying to shoot? A cz is not a target rifle the other 2 are. Apples vs oranges. But you do appear to have a problem if it Key holes at 200 meters. It's been a while, but my 10/22 dosen't key hole at 200 yds with cci standard vol. Its possable you have a carbon build up in the first 3rd of your barrel or throat.
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SGW Gunsmith
"Accipere non casus-Virga Bis"
A CZ is not a target rifle? Hmmm, my CZ 457 MTR didn't seem to get that memo:
The left group above was shot with the above rifle and SK Rifle Match ammunition at 45 yards.
I've just begun to test .22 rimfire ammunition through this rifle, but I surely do intend to shoot it a lot more. Plus, there are not many "sporting" .22 rimfire rifles, that I'm aware of, that chamber rounds so they are set "into" the rifling, as such:
I might be wrong, but the MTR, I think, stands for " Match Target Rifle", and I was guaranteed that CZ made it.
The left group above was shot with the above rifle and SK Rifle Match ammunition at 45 yards.
I've just begun to test .22 rimfire ammunition through this rifle, but I surely do intend to shoot it a lot more. Plus, there are not many "sporting" .22 rimfire rifles, that I'm aware of, that chamber rounds so they are set "into" the rifling, as such:
I might be wrong, but the MTR, I think, stands for " Match Target Rifle", and I was guaranteed that CZ made it.
Just an expression. You're technically right, of course.
That Tack Driver example is at 35 meters?
It may be prudent to reconsider using Hitler as part of an "expression".
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