Case failures near the case head (vertical crack)

[jepp2]

Bad brass, Winchester has had some severe quality issues over the years with brass and primers.

I've not had the best experience with Winchester either. I bought 2K of 204 Ruger brass from them and had to return over 300 that were not properly formed. The shoulder was almost a hemisphere instead of a sloped shoulder. Even when firing with a stout load, the shoulder didn't form properly.

I also had a failure of a Winchester Large Rifle primer in the rounded corner. They bought back 10K primers and paid to repair my bolt face.

Here is the 204 Ruger brass. Brass on the left what what I returned. Note the color is different.

 

[mgunderson]

Seen this type of crack/fold in the shoulder of several makers.

Cutting one of the cases and looking inside is a good idea. Would enjoy seeing what's there.

 

[46and2]

Just curious if anyone else has ever seen a similar failure? This is only the second time I have experienced it.

First time was on some Once Fired 22-250 brass I bought and didn't know the history on. Dismissed it and moved on.

Second time was on brass I bought new and was on the 2'nd firing in the same rifle as the first. Mild load, brass always stored properly (away from any ammonia) etc. This time it was in my 222 Rem.

First failures:
View attachment 1268307

Second occurrence

View attachment 1268308

Can you mic the thickness of the case walls?
I bet the split happened at the thin side.

 

[jepp2]

Can you mic the thickness of the case walls?

I plan to section the case to see what the interior of the case looks like and check wall thickness. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Juppe12]

I have seen similar blown brass. Sako did release press information about old Sako cartridges which have broke like that. There was some problem with older cartridges and brass few years ago and now Sako says that 10 years is maximum storage time for their cartridges. I think that brass just did get old for some reason, may be it was bad batch or something on their manufacturing process before they did have new cartridge manufacturing plant.

 

[rogina]

I've not had the best experience with Winchester either. I bought 2K of 204 Ruger brass from them and had to return over 300 that were not properly formed. The shoulder was almost a hemisphere instead of a sloped shoulder. Even when firing with a stout load, the shoulder didn't form properly.

I also had a failure of a Winchester Large Rifle primer in the rounded corner. They bought back 10K primers and paid to repair my bolt face.

Here is the 204 Ruger brass. Brass on the left what what I returned. Note the color is different.

View attachment 1268446

8 to 10 years ago Win made a lot of bad brass. Some was made in South America.

 

[jepp2]

Can you slice the brass above the flash burn and post pictures?

I cut the cartridge above the failure on the case wall to make it easier to cut (less metal thickness to deal with). Measure the wall about 0.125" down from the cut with a KTM modified ball mic. Case wall thickness was in the range of 23-24 thousandths, not thinner near the failure. Took pics of the inside as well. Other than the through wall hole, nothing obvious. Perhaps a place in the brass where an inclusion or cold lap was present that made it different than the remainder of the case after forming. For your viewing pleasure.

 

[flyingbair]

Bad brass, Winchester has had some severe quality issues over the years with brass and primers. To the previous post (Rsadams), I'd take that to the bank Winchester won't do anything about it. I had a large number of .45 ACP brass all stamped WINCHESTER, WIN or WCC that all had flash holes so large that there was barely enough material in the bottom of the primer pocket to seat a primer on. I contacted Winchester to see if they would stand behind their product and replace the bad brass with good. The rep I spoke with said that I needed to contact the vendor about replacing that brass. I told him they only sold it, you made a sub-quality product and put it on the market, aren't you going to stand behind the product you made. His reply was "is there anything else I can do for you", I told anything else would imply you had done something in the first place, are you going to replace my brass, that again was met with total silence.

I have had the same issues with Federal Gold Medal Match, 308 Win and with vertical ruptures at the base of the cartridges. This had nothing to do with the rifle’s chamber. I disassembled some cartridges and the powder had deteriorated and green in color. The base of the bullets were green and it seemed to have soften the brass from the inside out. Contacted the Federal Cartridge Company with the Lot Number and they advised any ammunition over 1 year old would not be supported. They did not want to see any cartridges and were not willing to discuss the issues with the brass. I can only assume it was a liability issue and they did not want to take responsibilty.

 

[Old Navy]

Had a friend up in Powel, Wy. send me some photos a couple years ago. The photos were of new once fired Nosler brass. They were split in the shoulder instead of the base. He pulled some down and the charge and bullet weight was what it was supposed to be. He backed off the charge two full grains and fired a few more. Three of five split. He quit right there and called Nosler. They exchanged cases with him and never offered an explanation.

 

[Twicepop]

I have had the same issues with Federal Gold Medal Match, 308 Win and with vertical ruptures at the base of the cartridges. This had nothing to do with the rifle’s chamber. I disassembled some cartridges and the powder had deteriorated and green in color. The base of the bullets were green and it seemed to have soften the brass from the inside out. Contacted the Federal Cartridge Company with the Lot Number and they advised any ammunition over 1 year old would not be supported. They did not want to see any cartridges and were not willing to discuss the issues with the brass. I can only assume it was a liability issue and they did not want to take responsibilty.

All of the .45 brass I mentioned in my post was tossed into the scrap bucket. After doing this an issue of HANDLOADER magazine came out, another person got batch of Winchester 45 ACP brass with the same problem. The writer that answered him suggested he do the same. A couple of years later I bought some 9MM range brass that had a large quantity of Winchester brass and various other brands. While processing the brass at a quick glance it appeared that the flash holes were off center on a lot of the Winchester cases. A closer look revealed that the flash holes were centered, it was the primer pockets that were off center.

 

[danny]

This particular brass (second occurrence) is W-W Super which I purchased in 2009.

The questions regarding the chamber, let me add some info that might be useful. The rifle is a Remington 40XBR from the custom shop in the early 1970's. It has had many thousands of rounds fired through it. And while there might be a chamber issue the fact this is the only failure of this type ever experienced from it.

Due to my month long colony varmint hunt each year and at least weekly trips to the range regardless of the month or temperature, there have been years I fired in excess of 12,000 center-fire rifle rounds. Probably always in excess of 8,000 every year. So some of the issues I encounter (primer failures at the rounded corner being just one) I attribute to just more potential due to the opportunity.

Was this brass stored loaded, and if so, for how long?

Danny

 

[acloco]

I cut the cartridge above the failure on the case wall to make it easier to cut (less metal thickness to deal with). Measure the wall about 0.125" down from the cut with a KTM modified ball mic. Case wall thickness was in the range of 23-24 thousandths, not thinner near the failure. Took pics of the inside as well. Other than the through wall hole, nothing obvious. Perhaps a place in the brass where an inclusion or cold lap was present that made it different than the remainder of the case after forming. For your viewing pleasure.

View attachment 1268754
View attachment 1268755
View attachment 1268756

Believe your pictures tell the story. ODD discoloration surrounding the new exit hole.

How old is this loaded ammo? Any more left? If so, pull down and check the powder/bullet/cases.

 

[jepp2]

How old is this loaded ammo?

Never stored loaded. After first firing it was cleaned in SS pins to pristine interior condition.

 

[jepp2]

Was this brass stored loaded, and if so, for how long?

No, never stored loaded.