Annealing/Pressure Question

[xswanted]

I was getting a lot of soot on my case shoulders in my 6x47.

Brass had been fired in the neighborhood of 8-12 times each.

So I tumbled it and decided to anneal. I don’t have a fancy annealing tool so I used a socket that the brass fit into and chucked it in a drill and spun it in the blue point of the flame on a propane torch until it visibly changed color. Basically a few seconds. Dumped it right in water after.

The brass came out looking pretty close to what new Lapua brass looks like and after firing it was soot free so I believe it worked.

However an odd anomaly occurred with 7-10 pieces of brass.

Using my normal load on this rifle, in normal shooting temps, I popped primers in 7-10 cases. Very randomly throughout my MTM box.

This load and rifle has never done this. Nor is it something I ever have an issue with once a load has been settled on.

Did something with the annealing cause this OR did I have tumbling media stuck in a few cases?

I’ve been reluctant to anneal again because of this.

 

[rwj]

However an odd anomaly occurred with 7-10 pieces of brass.

Using my normal load on this rifle, in normal shooting temps, I popped primers in 7-10 cases. Very randomly throughout my MTM box.

Can you post pics of the popped primers?

 

[xswanted]

Can you post pics of the popped primers?

Sorry they’re long gone already. It happened about three weeks ago actually and have not an issue since.

They were pierced directly in the center. Even broke a Jewel trigger spring on one.

Bolt is not bushed.

But I’ve not any trouble before or since.

 

[JFrank]

Did you size after annealing ?
Just wondering if the shoulder ( now soft) got pushed to far creating excess Headspace.

Crazy thought....

 

[xswanted]

Did you size after annealing ?
Just wondering if the shoulder ( now soft) got pushed to far creating excess Headspace.

Crazy thought....

Yep I sized after annealing.

I hadn’t thought of this possibly. I’m using a Whidden sizing die so good stuff but i suppose if it’s softer it could be the cause.

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Yep I sized after annealing.

I hadn’t thought of this possibly. I’m using a Whidden sizing die so good stuff but i suppose if it’s softer it could be the cause.

Annealing greatly affects springback.

When resizing did you adjust the die for your correct bump and confirm, or keep it as it was set before?

Annealing brass will bump shoulders up to .003 further than non annealed brass. So if you had the die set for .002 bump, after annealing and not adjusting die your bump could be as much as .005.

Also you completely changed your brass. Did you chrono any of the shots? Any difference?

 

[243winxb]

Let me guess, CCI 400 primers??

 

[xswanted]

Annealing greatly affects springback.

When resizing did you adjust the die for your correct bump and confirm, or keep it as it was set before?

Annealing brass will bump shoulders up to .003 further than non annealed brass. So if you had the die set for .002 bump, after annealing and not adjusting die your bump could be as much as .005.

Also you completely changed your brass. Did you chrono any of the shots? Any difference?

Good info.

I didn’t chrono after annealing but it was the same data out to 900 yards so I assume velocity didn’t change much.

I think I have the die set to bump .003, I’d have to look at notes.

I’ll have to try anneal a few again and see what if anything happens again.

 

[xswanted]

Let me guess, CCI 400 primers??View attachment 1264527

I was using CCI 450s.

 

[swd]

Like SPJ mentioned spring back or lack of makes a huge difference in headspace after annealing. I've seen .005"+ difference in my BRX after 3 firings and then annealing.

 

[xswanted]

Like SPJ mentioned spring back or lack of makes a huge difference in headspace after annealing. I've seen .005"+ difference in my BRX after 3 firings and then annealing.

What’s the process then to check this?

Does a guy write down your measurement of a sized case then size your annealed brass accordingly?

Does the annealed brass resize consistently? (I would guess the answer lies in how consistent the annealing process was)

 

[Straightshooter1]

What’s the process then to check this?

Does a guy write down your measurement of a sized case then size your annealed brass accordingly?

Does the annealed brass resize consistently? (I would guess the answer lies in how consistent the annealing process was)

For me, I've found that my annealed brass does indeed resize consistently (in terms of headspace, of course). It wasn't until I started annealing my brass after every firing that I was able to get consistency where my cases were within less than .001 of each other. Also, what helped with consistency along with the annealing was the "dwell time" when sizing the brass; I let the brass sit in the die for ~5 seconds before removing from the die (so it's not a quick in and out operation).

As far as my process, I don't record or need to write anything down, as I know from measuring my fired brass how much I want to bump the shoulders to give me the dimension I'm after ( like .0015 - .002 of bump). Since I found my headspace after sizing to be pretty consistent when annealing, I will only measure a small sample of cases as I size them just to be sure I'm getting what I want.

 

[swd]

What’s the process then to check this?

Does a guy write down your measurement of a sized case then size your annealed brass accordingly?

Does the annealed brass resize consistently? (I would guess the answer lies in how consistent the annealing process was)

Annealed brass sizes much more consistently. Back your die off and work it back down for .002" headspace. And yes how consistent your annealing is has a huge impact. I went from an Annealeze to an Amp and it made huge improvement. Doing it by hand, I wouldn't.

 

[xswanted]

Annealed brass sizes much more consistently. Back your die off and work it back down for .002" headspace. And yes how consistent your annealing is has a huge impact. I went from an Annealeze to an Amp and it made huge improvement. Doing it by hand, I wouldn't.

This is good info thank you.
I felt while I was annealing it would be quite hard to be consistent.

 

[xswanted]

For me, I've found that my annealed brass does indeed resize consistently (in terms of headspace, of course). It wasn't until I started annealing my brass after every firing that I was able to get consistency where my cases were within less than .001 of each other. Also, what helped with consistency along with the annealing was the "dwell time" when sizing the brass; I let the brass sit in the die for ~5 seconds before removing from the die (so it's not a quick in and out operation).

As far as my process, I don't record or need to write anything down, as I know from measuring my fired brass how much I want to bump the shoulders to give me the dimension I'm after ( like .0015 - .002 of bump). Since I found my headspace after sizing to be pretty consistent when annealing, I will only measure a small sample of cases as I size them just to be sure getting what I want.

Thank you for the explanation! Good info.

 

[Texas10]

This is good info thank you.
I felt while I was annealing it would be quite hard to be consistent.

Exactly what I found, no consistency in the anneal, and no real way to confirm a proper anneal. There are several very good products on the market for annealing, but only two that I believe can anneal consistently from batch to batch without a whole lot of set up each time. On the expensive end of the spectrum is the induction annealer. Once programmed for your cartridge, it's a simple load it up and push the start button, however it is a bit pricey even if you build your own.

On the least expensive end of the spectrum is salt bath annealing, about $100 to get set up. All that is needed is a Lee melter pot, temperature probe and meter, fixture to hold the case at the desired depth and salt media. You submerge the case neck in the 1000 degree salt bath for 5 or 6 seconds and drop it in a bucket of water. The drawback to salt bath method is that 1000 degree salt looks totally benign, no hint of what awaits you if you spill it, and it will instantly ignite anything flammable that it comes in contact with. Not what you'd call an indoor sport at all. But like the induction method, you know exactly how much heat you've applied to your case, and you know it's exactly the same every time.

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[JFrank]

What’s the process then to check this?

Does a guy write down your measurement of a sized case then size your annealed brass accordingly?

Does the annealed brass resize consistently? (I would guess the answer lies in how consistent the annealing process was)

Yeah ' I write that sh## down or draw a diagram as below im comparing the fired then resized by 2 seperate dies. I use a .30 bushing on my comparator for the br size cases.easy peezy