9mm not fitting case guage

[soggycashew]

Hello all, I'm new to reloading and have a few questions. I tried making a dummy 9mm round on my LEE LoadMaster following the load data in the Modern Reloading book for my 124gr FMJ Bullets. It shows a min 1.15 as a OAL using CFE Pistol. I seat it to that OAL and drop it into a case gauge and it doesn't lay flush so I did magic markered up the round and found its hitting on the bullet. I then got my Glock 19 and did the plunk test and it dropped in the barrel just fine.

This doesn't seat good with me because I want to be able to use in all my 9mm guns and don't want to have any issues. If I seat it to 1.12 then it fits just fine in the gauge and barrel BUT doesn't that change the chamber pressure?

Charge Weight Variance ISSUE
The CFE powder says a start grain of 4.9 and don't exceed 5.5, I'm trying to keep it a 5.0 but its not steady its more like 4.7-5.3.

I guess my question is I know all bullets aren't made the same shape so how do you know how far the bullet actually seat into the brass so you can determine if is seated to far or not enough?

HERE is a very good example/writeup of what I'm encountering.



Thanks,

 

[Cfshooter]

Hello all, I'm new to reloading and have a few questions. I tried making a dummy 9mm round on my LEE LoadMaster following the load data in the Modern Reloading book for my 124gr FMJ Bullets. It shows a min 1.15 as a OAL using CFE Pistol. I seat it to that OAL and drop it into a case gauge and it doesn't lay flush so I did magic markered up the round and found its hitting on the bullet. I then got my Glock 19 and did the plunk test and it dropped in the barrel just fine.

This doesn't seat good with me because I want to be able to use in all my 9mm guns and don't want to have any issues. If I seat it to 1.12 then it fits just fine in the gauge and barrel BUT doesn't that change the chamber pressure? The CFE powder says a start grain of 4.9 and don't exceed 5.5, I'm trying to keep it a 5.0 but its not steady its more like 4.7-5.3.

I guess my question is I know all bullets aren't made the same shape so how do you know how far the bullet actually seat into the brass so you can determine if is seated to far or not enough?

HERE is a very good example/writeup of what I'm encountering.

View attachment 1258664

Thanks,

If you plan on using in multiple guns then find the OAL that is needed for the tigress chamber and start load work up using that OAL. Yes, if you seat shorter or longer with pistol loads it does affect pressure, best to start at the shortest you need and work off of it. If your powder drop is ranging 4.7-5.3, you need to find out why, it should not do that. That can cause serious issues.

 

[GLShooter]

That bullet shape will hit the front of your chamber quicker than an FMJ. You must seat per chamber length. This is very common in rifles. The use of a gauge is all well and good but you have seen the fallacy of its use in all situations. . Now the kicker is pull your barrel and do the PLUNK test with that round loaded out. Is it too tall? Then shorten it. The PLUNK test is the arbiter in seating depth on this one. I suspect you MAY be OK but if not then adjust accordingly. Multi-gun usage of ammo means that some will be shorter/longer in various chambers but will still be OK.

A decrease in COL will cause a rise in pressure but it will not be much concern on this one thanks to the variance in 9 MM pressure through out the gamut of loadings out there. A +P 9 will probably have a higher loading pressure than what you are working with here.

A 10% variation in charge weight is unacceptable. While you are still below MAX it does little for accuracy. Admittedly most shooters might not notice it much at TYPICAL handgun ranges for most shooters but if I'm using a load at 50 yards like I do in some matches it will show up.

Greg

 

[Hoser]

Put the gauge away and use your chamber. The best gauge of them all.

 

[K22]

Others have addressed the seating issue so I won't chime in on that.

As others have stated, a variation of charge drops of 4.6 to 5.3 is way too much. This needs to be investigated and corrected before proceeding.

1. What device are you using to dispense powder?

2. Which scale are you using to verify charge weights from the dispensing device?
Has the scale accuracy been verified with calibration check weights?
How repeatable is the scale, i.e. does it registered the same weight for the same dropped charge?
Does the scale return to zero after using?

3. Do you "condition" the charging device dropping 10-15 charges before verifying dispensing device charge weight and charging cases? Do you check dispense charges at least ever 10th dropped charge?

4. Not familiar with CFE powder but most pistol powders are ball or flattened ball designed to meter precisely through a powder measure. What is the structure of this powder?

 

[MarkG]

The Lee Auto Disk powder measure should be used for Loadmaster handgun rounds and will produce very consistent powder drops. When starting a session the adjustments are best checked by running single rounds through a complete cycle. The overall length will increase by a couple thousands when switching to a round in each position.

 

[riflewoman]

I have a Walther P1 that will not accept some factory rounds. I have learned that some truncated cone bullets especially have the issue. A CAVEAT...9mm is sensitive to seating depth and a nice safe load can become over max pressure with seating depth increases of as little as .050. So if you MUST seat deeper, keep that in mind.

 

[Rsadams]

Just FYI I load all my 9mm for 6 different pistols at 1.150.... shouldn't be a problem..... Are you looking at data for that bullet , it matters.... I load Berry's bullets so they want them seated out because of pressure... Seems strange you would be seating that bullet at that depth since I am seating fmjs at that distance....

 

[mousegunner]

I use the plunk method since I only have one 9mm but that will change. I use Zero 124s and they seen to have a similar profile (like the HAP). According to Zero I can use 1.110-1.130. I tried 1.125 and it looks good on paper but trying 1.110 also to compare and then adjust. The 1.125 does not touch the rifling on my HP.

I'm using 3.7 of Titegroup for both seatings, if the 1.110 shows pressure signs I'll stop.

If I do get 2 more 9s (S&W MPs) I may get a chamber gauge but for now the plunk works for me.

 

[soggycashew]

I'm using a Lee Auto Drum powder measure and my digital scale has been tested with weights and its dead on and it zeros every time. I haven't ran 10-15 rounds through it to check I ran 5 or more. The powder is very fine.

Thanks for all the replies, I'm going to start over to see what the deal is on the range of powder. What is a good overall powder that is good for plinking?

 

[GLShooter]

231 is my 9 MM choice for plinking all the way to shooting the US Nationals on the big stage.

 

[Rsadams]

Winchester 231 is good with that bullet because a double charge is full to the top of the case , pretty much overflowing.... Not great for a bunch of speed but for paper punching you don't need full power loads.... It's just more wear on the gun and on you... I have loaded thousands and thousands and thousands of Berry's bullets 124gr with it with zero problems over the years.... Don't load full power loads with a powder dropper and it won't be bad if it's a 10th off.... In a perfect world you would want everything to be the same but it's not a perfect world.... Seating the bullets to deep in a 9mm can get you in trouble fast because it builds MORE pressure that you don't need.... I shoot the 124gr round nose Berry's bullets at around 990 to 1000fps.... The paper doesn't know it's not super fast...

 

[wagonman]

Winchester 231 is good with that bullet because a double charge is full to the top of the case , pretty much overflowing.... Not great for a bunch of speed but for paper punching you don't need full power loads.... It's just more wear on the gun and on you... I have loaded thousands and thousands and thousands of Berry's bullets 124gr with it with zero problems over the years.... Don't load full power loads with a powder dropper and it won't be bad if it's a 10th off.... In a perfect world you would want everything to be the same but it's not a perfect world.... Seating the bullets to deep in a 9mm can get you in trouble fast because it builds MORE pressure that you don't need.... I shoot the 124gr round nose Berry's bullets at around 990 to 1000fps.... The paper doesn't know it's not super fast...

berrys 124 plated and 231 go together like peas and carrots in my 9mm kimber 1911 target

 

[D-4297]

I've been loading Berry's 124gr THP for about four years now , with no issues , using 4.5gr of Red Dot . OAL is at 1.125" . The gun is a Glock 17 with a Compensated barrel , and it doesn't shoot anything very well , except that load . Commercial ammo ? Fogetaboutit ....But it's a Comp gun , so "No Worries" . That load is probably a bit to hot for standard use , though . So be advised .

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I recently purchased a Lee disk powder throw, tried it with some Clays powder, terrible. Put it back in the box,probably try and sell it at a show.

 

[SRP Shooter 1]

For small capacity cases like the 9mm and 38 special I have come to really like the RCBS Little Dandy.
You have to get your motions in rhythm and maintain it through the process to get really consistently metered loads. This tool with fine grain powders will drop loads under .1 variation if you do your part.

KS

 

[GAnderson]

What are you calling a "case gage"? A case gage is to determine the length/size of the casing so you know whether or not it needs trimmed and that it will fit in the chamber...an OAL gage is for seating depth of the bullet.

 

[divingin]

Hello all, I'm new to reloading and have a few questions. I tried making a dummy 9mm round on my LEE LoadMaster following the load data in the Modern Reloading book for my 124gr FMJ Bullets. It shows a min 1.15 as a OAL using CFE Pistol. I seat it to that OAL and drop it into a case gauge and it doesn't lay flush so I did magic markered up the round and found its hitting on the bullet.

All 124 gr bullets are not equal. The data you're using is probably for 124 gr FMJ round nose. You have something like a flat point, or truncated cone. While the charge data will likely be the same, the seating depth will not, due to the different bullet shape.

If you have a bullet of both types (RN and whatever you're using), stick them nose-first into the muzzle of your pistol (or rifle), and mark as close to the crown as you can. Measure from the bullet tip to the mark (as accurately as you can.) My guess is that the FP bullet will be much shorter from tip to ogive, and will need to be seated to a shorter OAL to avoid hitting the rifling.

 

[AckleymanII]

Couple of things. Use the barrel on each individual pistol and establish the "touch" length on each bullet used, just like you would use on a rifle.

Work up your most accurate powder charge .020 off touch, then start changing the OAL in .005 increments. If you are shooting off a supported rest, you are going to be simply dumb founded at how .005 increments in OAL changes will have positive and very negative effects on accuracy.

By using the above method, you will establish some amazing accuracy for each individual pistol that is way above the "Spray and Pray" approach to reloading for semi's.

Tight Group around 3.4g and AA#7(1150-1200 fps) around 7.8g are simply outstanding powders for that bullet weight! 231 is like shooting dirt in your pistol, it is accurate, but it is horrible in how it gums up the barrel and trigger group.

I prefer George's 130g HP over any plated bullet:

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George can size the bullets to fit your barrel, and different hardness levels. Those 130g HP expand to 69 Caliber in 5 gallon water jugs.

If there is any lead in the barrel, a punch type of jag and Lead cloth will take care of the lead, post haste!

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[Uncle Ed]

The link below applies to all pistols and not just CZ pistols. Read the posts by Wobbly with his great illustrations.​

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Topic: How to determine Max OAL for a CZ Pistol (Read 155870 times)​

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0