Primary objective of neck turning

[Slowburn]

Hi Everyone, This is actually my first post on the forum. I have been reloading for quite a few years, mainly for hunting, but recently I am enjoying loading for more precision beyond what I have been. I have not yet attempted neck turning and I’m wondering if thats something worthwhile for me to explore.

Is slight variation in the thickness of the neck going to have a significant impact on neck tension? And what amount of thickness variation is worth addressing? Maybe most importantly, is this just about controlling neck tension or am I missing the point?

In terms of my rifle, shooting ability etc: I’m just shooting a model 700 .308 I had fitted with a shilen barrel. I had the action lapped and trued, trigger job etc. I have been able to shoot under 1/4” with it repeatedly under ideal conditions. I’m terms of accuracy, that’s actually all I am hoping for. However, I would like to do more with case prep, sorting, precision measurement, etc in order to prevent occasional non-shooter related “fliers” and also to recognize and address issues that arise with brass as it ages.

 

[PopCharlie]

For me, there are only 2 reasons for turning necks. One is for tight neck chambers, the other is to correct variance in neck wall thickness. I check for variance after every third firing. Once I see .0015 variance in a batch a brass, I turn the whole batch to clean up the necks. This will usually remove brass from the entire circumference of the neck.
Having said that, I also believe that annealing after each firing keeps neck tension more consistent as well.

PopCharlie

 

[LHSmith]

For the best return for your money and time invest in wind flags to determine where those "fliers" really come from.

 

[Mulligan]

For the best return for your money and time invest in wind flags to determine where those "fliers" really come from.

I agree with you completely.
All range flags (15' red and yellow)I have seen, lie. That may be their only mission in life, who knows? I think figuring out which one lies the least is the hard part. With that said, my personal wind flags lie less frequently and HAVE helped a bunch...... even at 600 yards.
CW

 

[Slowburn]

For the best return for your money and time invest in wind flags to determine where those "fliers" really come from.

Totally get what you’re saying here and agree. Honestly wind seems like the most difficult part of the equation. I suppose you could divide attempts to improve accuracy into two groups, range/shooting skills and reloading practices. If we say these two categories follow the 80/20 rule there is much more to be gained in terms of learning to read the wind etc. I’m just addressing neck turning and other more minor details of the loading process because they can be corrected and improved through some quick, simple changes and eliminated from the list of potential trouble spots. Picking some low hanging fruit while I work on thanksgiving dinner.

 

[trapperdan]

I am not a competition shooter but I do shoot several thousand rounds at squirrels every year. I do turn the necks of all my brass just because I enjoy trying to make my brass as perfect as I can. It just plain enjoyable. That makes it worth it to me .
Dan

 

[FeMan]

The only reason to turn necks for you is if you have insufficient neck clearance. Measure your fired cases and make sure your loaded rounds are 0.005 less than the fired ones. If they aren't neck turning to get there is probably warranted.

 

[Rick300]

I believe a 75 - 80% cleanup on the necks contributes greatly to accuracy. On my factory hunting rifles it has been one of the biggest factors in reducing group size. I know a lot of people say it doesn't matter on factory guns, but my experience has been different. If you are doing only one or two calibers, it's not really that expensive to try it and see. Call the folks at PMA and they can set you up with a handheld turner that works great.

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[Bc'z]

Hey @Slowburn welcome to the forum.
I believe Neck turning could help you in getting consistent tension/bullet hold. I dont feel it's going to relate to fliers as much as ignition will, either to poor trigger/spring adjustment, inconsistent primer pocket depth, and seating of primers.
I've seen the results of these things.
Consistent seating depth of bullets after sorting is another Avenue to explore.
As a couple others suggested, once you get into custom chambers, and use heavier brass neck turning can be beneficial, I've run into this on 2 out of 3 of my last chambers.

 

[K22]

You didn't mention the max distance that you're shooting but if you're already shooting under 1/4 moa you are doing something very right in terms of load, rifle, and marksmanship.

I know some long range precision shooters (i.e. 600 yards+) that advocate turning necks to uniform neck tension which they claim contributes to precision. I can't dispute this claim since I don't shoot at those distances.

I shoot under 300 yards (at range 200 yards - varmint / predator hunting under 300 yards) and most of my precision rifles shoot under 1/2 moa consistently if I do my part. That meets my standards and I've never turned necks. I use conventional new cases, i.e. Rem, Win, Hornady depending on what is available.

I dedicate a group of case to a specific rifle, rotate their use for uniform wear. I full size with a .001 - .002" shoulder bump and control neck tension with different size expanders balls depending on the brand of cases and rifle. I've found this to be the simplest and easiest way to control neck tension consistency. It's not perfect or as uniform as turning necks but it works well effort for me. My goal is to obtain relative consistency for a group of dedicated case.

I'm strictly a performance base reloader / shooter. If something can be demonstrated to me with my equipment to significantly improved performance then I'll test it, and adopt it if it shows significant performance improvement. For me, reloading is not a hobby, it's a necessary chore so I try to keep it as simple and cost effective as possible.

 

[LHSmith]

This can easily end up a trip down the rabbit hole. If you are not committed to adhering to details of the neck turning process to the N'th degree you will do more harm than good. Some factors involve:

• Ability to read a micrometer to 0.0001" accurately and consistently.
• Maintaining a constant temperature during operation and measuring.
• Loss of cases while performing operation- it is a process with a large learning curve (if done correctly) and you will trash cases along the way ( i.e. cutting too deep into shoulder, improper set-up of expander mandrel, etc.)

I realize your intent is just to address the high spots on the neck wall, but if your ultimate goal is to make the necks more consistent then a targeted neck wall dimension is needed and adhered to.....or what was the point of this process?

 

[lawman29]

...just shooting a model 700 .308 I had fitted with a shilen barrel. I had the action lapped and trued, trigger job etc. I have been able to shoot under 1/4” with it repeatedly under ideal conditions. I’m terms of accuracy, that’s actually all I am hoping for. However, I would like to do more with case prep, sorting, precision measurement, etc in order to prevent occasional non-shooter related “fliers” and also to recognize and address issues that arise with brass as it ages.

All things are inter-connected so:
Shooting off bench? front rest/rear bag? bipod? Distance?
Stock? pillar bedded? what does a trigger job mean (a stock remington trigger)? barrel twist?
Optics?
Reloading: powder scale? make type sizing die? seater die? current case prep practices?
bullet using? primer...do you have different types to test? brass mfg?
Answer these questions and then a neck turning question can be more thoughtfully discussed.

 

[rkittine]

My 6PPC is a .262 Throat so I either have to turn the necks or buy prepped brass that have been turned.

 

[Slowburn]

All things are inter-connected so:
Shooting off bench? front rest/rear bag? bipod? Distance?
Stock? pillar bedded? what does a trigger job mean (a stock remington trigger)? barrel twist?
Optics?
Reloading: powder scale? make type sizing die? seater die? current case prep practices?
bullet using? primer...do you have different types to test? brass mfg?
Answer these questions and then a neck turning question can be more thoughtfully discussed.

- Currently shooting off the bench with leather bags and front tripod. I will be using a Harris bipod eventually for hunting, potentially opening another can of worms.
- HS precision fiberglass stock with a full aluminum bedding block. Have not epoxy bedded it anywhere.
- “Trigger job”, I wish I could tell you. It’s one of the better old factory Triggers. Paid the gunsmith for a “trigger job” back before I really knew anything, he may have just turned the screws, maybe a timney would be worth considering.
- No intentions of shooting past 600 but still want to maintain best precision possible to that point. I have access to a 300 yd range and shoot there fairly often.
- 1 in 11 with 168 A-max
- Burris XTR II 5-25
- powder scale is frankford arsenal Intellidropper, maybe not the greatest but I have been impressed with it so far. Considering an old school balance type.
- Redding Fl sizing die and Redding seater. I just got the competition shellholders to set shoulder back .002. Carbide sizing buttons and micrometer seaters are on their way as well.
- Remington brass currently but have a box of Lapua when ready.
- Have WLR and CCI LRP primers but the winchesters are in quarantine right now. I got a bad batch and their customer service is worse than their components. May share that story in a new thread.
- Case prep is wet tumble with steel pins, resize with one shot or the Hornady paste, primer pocket cleaning tool, trim to length and deburr the mouth. Might start brushing inside of case neck as well, overlooked that all these years.

 

[lawman29]

Redding Fl sizing die and Redding seater. I just got the competition shellholders to set shoulder back .002. Carbide sizing buttons and micrometer seaters are on their way as well.

Okay just a preliminary comment. Your initial question was regarding neck turning for uniform neck tension to improve precision, that is just part of the equation. The other part of precision in load development is to adjust neck tension. Hence bushing sizing dies. I would not go through the trouble of neck turning unless I was using a bushing die to size. Adjusting neck tension will make a difference if other parts of the equation are good.

 

[lawman29]

Remington brass currently but have a box of Lapua when ready

Can't mix mfg when doing load development for "precision".

 

[lawman29]

Trimming. When a case is fired the brass grows, how much depends on mfg, caliber, etc. Take a piece of your virgin lapua brass and put it in your die box, this will be your "standard" for comparisons etc. You might measure some of your fired Remington brass and note differences in their lengths and to the standard.

Annealing. As a case is fired and sized multiple times the brass can become in layman terms 'work hardened' and 'spring back'. What can happen is the shoulders don't stay 'bumped', your neck tension suffers and case life may shortened. How often this may or may not need to be done will be revealed by your own brass.

 

[acloco]

There are MANY reasons to turn necks.

Fair attempt at controlling neck tension is mine.

I do NOT run tight neck chambers. I punch paper, prairie dogs, and deer. Like to go long on paper (300 on out to 1500).

 

[Slowburn]

Can't mix mfg when doing load development for "precision".

All good here, I mean when I have a process nailed down and can take advantage of the better brass without ruining it, I will develop a new load with it.

 

[INTJ]

Hi Everyone, This is actually my first post on the forum. I have been reloading for quite a few years, mainly for hunting, but recently I am enjoying loading for more precision beyond what I have been. I have not yet attempted neck turning and I’m wondering if thats something worthwhile for me to explore.

Is slight variation in the thickness of the neck going to have a significant impact on neck tension? And what amount of thickness variation is worth addressing? Maybe most importantly, is this just about controlling neck tension or am I missing the point?

In terms of my rifle, shooting ability etc: I’m just shooting a model 700 .308 I had fitted with a shilen barrel. I had the action lapped and trued, trigger job etc. I have been able to shoot under 1/4” with it repeatedly under ideal conditions. I’m terms of accuracy, that’s actually all I am hoping for. However, I would like to do more with case prep, sorting, precision measurement, etc in order to prevent occasional non-shooter related “fliers” and also to recognize and address issues that arise with brass as it ages.

Frequent non-shooter induced fliers are a sign that the load isn't right. In fact, I don't consider them fliers, just a bad load. However, if it happens only on occasion, then you are right to try and refine your loading practices.

I think one of the best tools to help check the quality of our loading practices is a chronograph. If you are getting decent close range groups but frequently have extreme spreads above 20 or so, then there might be room for improvement in how you load. It could also be that that barrel just doesn't like that powder or primer with that bullet, but whenever I see that--good group/bad ES --I start looking deeper.

Annealing is the best way I know to maintain the consistency of brass over its life. To that end I anneal after every firing with my LR BR rifles. Brass will also last a long time without annealing if the loads aren't hot. The worst thing we can do is anneal every few firings as that introduces a lot of change each time we anneal, vs annealing each time or not annealing at all.

I spec a tight necked reamer and turn necks mainly so I can use most of the brass in a lot/box. For best accuracy we want to use only cases that have .0015" or less of variance in neck wall thickness. Many times we'd have to sort out half our brass to meet that standard. By turning necks, I can get nearly all the cases to within a few ten-thousandths of each other.

We can also neck turn for a chamber with a standard neck but we have to be careful. We really don't want to have more the .005" of neck clearance. We might wind up with more than .005" of neck clearance by the time we get the case necks cleaned up. A tight necked chamber solves that.

Now the reason we want consistent neck wall thickness is to enhance consistency when the neck releases the bullet. That can enhance consistency with group sizes.