I don't agree with you considering my chamber isn't oversized
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what neck turning tool do I need not for f class shooting?
- Thread starter milboltnut
- Start date
That doesn't make sense going with a smaller bushing undersizing from the sized case, considering, I said the chamber size is .333 and the fired case is .340. As far as babied, I'm just making it more interesting that's all.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Your chamber cannot be .333 and a fired case .340. If your fired case is .340 your chamber is around .342 if your brass is fairly fresh
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You measure a loaded round- over the neck with bullet seated then subtract a few thou to select a bushing. Measure a loaded round on the brass youll be using and ill tell you what bushings to order. Chamber size makes no difference
A loaded round is sized under the chamber dimensions... SAMMI neck is .340 my fired case is .340, the sized loaded case is .333. just the sized case is .330
page 107 on the index
page 107 on the index
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Well I have read it and you keep going back to that post and, well, I disagree with you respectfully.
Where you totally missed the point,,, and pointed it out in several other post,,, is.
In a factory rifle barrel, the idea is not to turn it down like you do for a custom barrel that has tight neck dimensions.
In a factory Barrel,, the idea is to TRUE the case neck.( like a Break rotor of break drum on a car ) The MORE MATERIAL that you have in the case neck wall thickness, the better off you are.
I do not turn my Lapua brass down past .0135, normally they run .0145 to .0153, when brand new, unfired, unturned... I believe that Lapua is the best brass that you can buy for several calibers that I own in factory barrels.( And they are not TRUE "SQUARED" out of the box. ) I believe that when you turn the lapua brass down past .0135, "FACTORY BARRELS" you run into tension issues. Here, you have a very thin case neck, trying to fill and form to the chamber wall when fired. That's a lot of room for that thin case neck to fill up when you pull the trigger. So, the thicker your case necks are in a factory barrel the better off you are, provided that the Case Necks are TRUE. Look at it like this. In a Custom Barrel. If you put a case, that has been turned down to the correct specs for that barrel, and you turned it out of round. " NOT SQUARED " it would shoot like crap. The same in factory rifles. So to say, that Trueing case necks correctly in a factory barrel has no purpose or advantage is just neglecting another Variable in my Reloading book. Just me, and I don't mean to sound like a smart, well,, you know. On a more positive note I would like to say thank you for your years of posting on this forum. I remember your post from the first time I logged on over a decade ago. lol, I'm going to shut up now and sit down. LOL
nmkid
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a question concerning the 21st Century Tool. Never owned one, so I'm just going by the videos online. It appears to me that when starting to align a case for turning you have to align the case mouth and arbor by tweaking them either up or down. Because of this "tweaking", it appears to me that the case enters the arbor with some side pressure. Wouldn't that cause some off canter turning?
I just used wet 1500 sandpaper,
used wet 1500 sandpaper on my Forster carbide cutter
First pic before and second pic after
Attachments
the case holder and cutter is floating, suppose to find and maintain center while cutting
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There is an assumption by the participants who are offering you advise and that is "If you ask a question then you are trying to learn or gain insight." However, if you immediately respond staccato style with challenging/contrary opinions or sharp tone then people start thinking that you are either Trolling or obtuse. I will try to help.
I am not an F-class shooter. I am more of a practical shooter who does pursue accuracy/precision. I neck turn because I am forming brass cases. When necking down a case, the neck's wall thickness is increases as you force a larger diameter neck into a smaller diameter neck (same volume of brass now reformed into a smaller diameter neck). I am neck turning so that the newly formed case will fit into the rifle chamber and and also fit a bullet inside the case. This isn't your issue with a factory rifle.
Factory barrels tend to have loose chambers as a result of manufacturer's using reamers that will cut a chamber that can fit any factory ammo into it and function reliably, which translates into more generous dimensions. Factory rifles are geared toward 1moa construction. Specs for a deer rifle are significantly different then for precision shooting. This is not to say that you might get lucky and have a tighter chamber or a sub 1MOA rifle with a factory setup, but it is less likely.
Assuming that the chamber is loose (oversized compared to a custom built rifle/premium barrel) then neck turning (reducing the neck diameter) will enlarge the gap between the case neck dimension and the chamber's neck dimension. Regardless of the thickness of the neck's case walls, the neck will expand during firing to fit the rifle's chamber. This may or may not affect your accuracy, but it does shorten the brass life because you are now shrinking and expanding the case neck a greater distance then if neck's brass was not turned (thinned). Even without neck turning, different brand brass cases (different headstamps) are known to have different case thicknesses and correspondingly may fit a specific chamber more tightly or loosely.
For a factory rifle, neck turning cases is much further down the list of steps to improving accuracy. You will gain more from replacing factory trigger, upgrading stock (bedding the action and if crappy tupperware stock getting a new rigid stock), quality bullets that match to your barrel's twist rate, quality brass for reloading (buy a box or two of Lapua) or at least make certain brass is same brand (mixed range brass is to inconsistent for to be reliably for precision). Lastly, spend some time developing a load, which may require trying several different bullets and powder combinations. Even when I know the bullet, powder, and COAL, I will still go through a box of bullets (50-100 rounds) dialing in my powder charge to find most accurate load. If you are already doing this then you have covered the basics.
The easiest way to avoid the doughnut is to Full Length Resize your brass. If you want to go an extra step you can remove the expander button from the Resizing die and in a second step use an expander mandrel to create a uniform Neck ID to improve neck tension. You may or may not notice any difference in a factory chambered barrel.
As a kid I spent endless hours trying to max out the potential accuracy of factory rifles. With reloading I could always improve a rifles performance, but there was a limit to how much. Some guys like chasing a problem and the pleasure is this activity, and not the outcome. I learned from watching my dad that there was a limit to how much effort I was willing to throw down a hole blindly without knowing if it would be wasted. I have rifles that I decided from the onset that 1moa is all I wanted or needed from it and the only change was to improve the trigger if needed. I have other rifles that I want one hole accuracy and that is a totally different pony. If it were me then before I would consider neck turning, I would start with rebarreling the rifle with a premium quality barrel (Bartlein, Kreiger, Leija, etc) done by a competent gunsmith.
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You have your opinion and I have mine. I think I'll leave at that. And there are very few of guys like you who think that I am being a troll... so I believe you are the silent minority. BTW have you ever chamber cast a rifle?
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SAMMI
MAXIMUM CARTRIDGE / MINIMUM CHAMBER
The maximum case is under the minimum chamber dimensions. My case neck and bottom of shoulder measures minimum chamber. (what is minimum chamber? Factory standard?
So yes chamber size does matter, based on my fired case. IF Dusty Stevens wants to prove me wrong, have at it. Lets see a chamber cast of any factory .30-06 and that will tell all. If I'm wrong ,AFTER seeing the proof, I'll be the first to admit it.
MAXIMUM CARTRIDGE / MINIMUM CHAMBER
The maximum case is under the minimum chamber dimensions. My case neck and bottom of shoulder measures minimum chamber. (what is minimum chamber? Factory standard?
So yes chamber size does matter, based on my fired case. IF Dusty Stevens wants to prove me wrong, have at it. Lets see a chamber cast of any factory .30-06 and that will tell all. If I'm wrong ,AFTER seeing the proof, I'll be the first to admit it.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
I can assure you im right. Only issue is youre so far in left field i have no idea what youre talking about anymore. Im trying to help and so is everybody else. Measure your brass neck over a seated bullet. Tell me that measurement before you post any other facts. Ill tell you what bushing to use and dont care which of the million saami sized chamber variations you have.
I'm not gonna use a bushing, so you don't need to gather anymore information from me thanks.
I'll go with factory Sammi standard before I go with you. Have you chambered a rifle before? Oh that's right you're a gunsmith, I forgot. Be real man..... Military rifle chambers are loose, not factory chambers. Do you use wore out reamers to continue to chamber rifle barrels? I doubt it. And I doubt you chamber a barrel to build an already built factory rifle for someone, do you?
But just appease you .340 fired neck and .330 loaded round. You tried to tell me before, that I still had a couple of thousands to go...... on a fired case. How would you know that without cast or what ever you would do to know that.
I'll go with factory Sammi standard before I go with you. Have you chambered a rifle before? Oh that's right you're a gunsmith, I forgot. Be real man..... Military rifle chambers are loose, not factory chambers. Do you use wore out reamers to continue to chamber rifle barrels? I doubt it. And I doubt you chamber a barrel to build an already built factory rifle for someone, do you?
But just appease you .340 fired neck and .330 loaded round. You tried to tell me before, that I still had a couple of thousands to go...... on a fired case. How would you know that without cast or what ever you would do to know that.
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Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Ok man youre right. You dont need my help or anybody else’s here. You start out with turning necks and then give some brass measurements that are physically impossible then tell me how dumb i am. Thatll work everytime just go right ahead.
LOL LOL yeah ok....there are people here who disagree with you, what's wrong with them? How is the brass measurement physically impossible that I gave you, tell me? LMAO All you want to do is blurt out unsubstantiated facts.
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