Burris Pos-Align Ring Insert Question

[hoz53]

OK. I know Burris recommends using matched pairs of these in a single ring like a +20 and -20 ect and I can understand why this would be in some cases, but if you only need an elevation adjustment why can’t you use say a -20 in bottom front, a 20+ in bottom rear and zeros on the tops. I just tried this in fact to try to get 40 moa and I didn’t have two sets of twenty’s. I got the moa adjustment I was looking for but seemed to have some poi shifting. This could have been 4 many reasons of coarse but I wondered if the scope could have been shifting because of the way I have the inserts. The scope does seem solid in the mounts though. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[topclass2017]

It is my understanding that the rings need to be kept as matched sets - 20's with 20's, etc. - to either keep full contact with the scope (a negative with a zero, or potentially crushing the tube (a positive with a zero). By mixing and matching, you will not have full purchase on one end or the other, so while the scope would seem solid, one end will have a degree of "float" within the inserts and could move around.

 

[hoz53]

It is my understanding that the rings need to be kept as matched sets - 20's with 20's, etc. - to either keep full contact with the scope (a negative with a zero, or potentially crushing the tube (a positive with a zero). By mixing and matching, you will not have full purchase on one end or the other, so while the scope would seem solid, one end will have a degree of "float" within the inserts and could move around.

What you say does make sense, and so I will put matched sets in and see if that helps my poi shifting. Thanks

 

[6MMsteve]

gotta get those inserts in the groove square. plus I deburr mine with sandpaper they kinda have a sharp edge and sometimes they have some flash on the half side or split, I just make sure there is nothing sharp about the edges, I try to dull them down. if this helps any

 

[std7mag]

This is why i use a 20MOA base and regular rings.

 

[hoz53]

gotta get those inserts in the groove square. plus I deburr mine with sandpaper they kinda have a sharp edge and sometimes they have some flash on the half side or split, I just make sure there is nothing sharp about the edges, I try to dull them down. if this helps any

ill check for that . Thanks

 

[hoz53]

This is why i use a 20MOA base and regular rings.

There is something to be said for that for sure. In this case it seems i need 40 just to site in at 100, so to me something seems wrong to begin with. after i found this out i wished i would have bought an moa base . probaby wont use this gun much past 100 though so thought i could make something work. may have to buy more inserts, and that is fine. Thanks

 

[hoz53]

It is my understanding that the rings need to be kept as matched sets - 20's with 20's, etc. - to either keep full contact with the scope (a negative with a zero, or potentially crushing the tube (a positive with a zero). By mixing and matching, you will not have full purchase on one end or the other, so while the scope would seem solid, one end will have a degree of "float" within the inserts and could move around.

Well I switched these inserts to a set of 20s in the front ring and a set of 10s in the rear ring (all I had) and shot this today. The POI returned to being consistent and I made some progress with the gun, so I guess you were right and with the mismatched inserts the scope was slipping. Thanks again

 

[KY_Windage]

gotta get those inserts in the groove square. plus I deburr mine with sandpaper they kinda have a sharp edge and sometimes they have some flash on the half side or split, I just make sure there is nothing sharp about the edges, I try to dull them down. if this helps any

I have installed dozens of these and have never seen an insert that needed to be sanded.

They do need to be centered in the rings properly or they will move later from recoil.

I occasionally need 20 or so MOA of windage correction to avoid having that turret maxed or nearly maxed to one side. You can't fix that with an MOA base.

 

[Fxdwgpig]

I use both a 20 MOA rail and the Burris Signature XTR rings as well. I have never had any POI shift with these excellent rings and inserts. Follow the instructions. Read them once and then read them again!

 

[Thomasconnor]

OK. I know Burris recommends using matched pairs of these in a single ring like a +20 and -20 ect and I can understand why this would be in some cases, but if you only need an elevation adjustment why can’t you use say a -20 in bottom front, a 20+ in bottom rear and zeros on the tops. I just tried this in fact to try to get 40 moa and I didn’t have two sets of twenty’s. I got the moa adjustment I was looking for but seemed to have some poi shifting. This could have been 4 many reasons of coarse but I wondered if the scope could have been shifting because of the way I have the inserts. The scope does seem solid in the mounts though. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

I have done this many times.

It was discussed on RFC, and everyone that said you couldn't or shouldn't could not explain why not, and it works great.

The only side effect is the distance between the top and bottom steel ring halves is slightly different. The ring witth the positive insert will have a slightly wider gap..Tom

 

[hoz53]

I have done this many times.

It was discussed on RFC, and everyone that said you couldn't or shouldn't could not explain why not, and it works great.

The only side effect is the distance between the top and bottom ring halves is slightly different...Tom

Thanks- I to could not see why it wouldnt work. When I set a scope up this way it seemed very secure to. But when I shot it my shots were going all over the paper. Mabie something is at play i dont realize. When I put the scope in with like inserts the shifting ended. id like to know what im missing for sure.

 

[KY_Windage]

I have done this many times.

It was discussed on RFC, and everyone that said you couldn't or shouldn't could not explain why not, and it works great.

The only side effect is the distance between the top and bottom ring halves is slightly different...Tom

I would not do it because when you combine proper inserts (e. g., +10 and -10, or 0 and 0) they form a perfect interior circle. When you combine oddballs, like a 20 and 0, they will not form a perfect circle. The flexibility of the inserts may bail you out, especially with a low-recoiling caliber, but I would be afraid of having uneven pressure leading to scope slippage.

I would have to have some good reason to go against logic and the mfgr's recommendation, and I don't even see a half-good reason. It's not like the inserts are expensive.

 

[KY_Windage]

Thanks- I to could not see why it wouldnt work. When I set a scope up this way it seemed very secure to. But when I shot it my shots were going all over the paper. Mabie something is at play i dont realize. When I put the scope in with like inserts the shifting ended. id like to know what im missing for sure.

Yes, exactly what I was just talking about. You scope may have "seemed very secure" but it was slipping during recoil.

 

[Thomasconnor]

Insert end gap varies with different scopes and inserts without issue, for what it's worth.

Remember, shims were used on one side of the ring for decades before Burris inserts.

Heck, I still use shims when I don't want to use the Signature rings.

 

[hoz53]

Yes, exactly what I was just talking about. You scope may have "seemed very secure" but it was slipping during recoil.

yes i believe my scope was shifting

 

[hoz53]

Insert end gap varies with different scopes and inserts without issue, for what it's worth.

Remember, shims were used on one side of the ring for decades before Burris inserts.

Heck, I still use shims when I don't want to use the Signature rings.

never used other shims. So mabie trimming the ends of the inserts wouid work?. if i try it again Ill watch that thanks

 

[Thomasconnor]

Are you saying the insert ends were binding with no end gap? If so, that sounds like a problem.

 

[holstil]

Hoz, been doing that since they came out (for elevation only) with no problems. Never any marks or slippage here. I feel the design will allow it stress free with no problems.
I believe, and would like to know otherwise that they only make 0 and +/-.10 for 30mm?

 

[Straightshooter1]

Hoz, been doing that since they came out (for elevation only) with no problems. Never any marks or slippage here. I feel the design will allow it stress free with no problems.
I believe, and would like to know otherwise that they only make 0 and +/-.10 for 30mm?

The XTR Signature set of Burris rings I've got came with a set of 5 rings for 30mm (10 halves, if you will):

-0- (Zero)
+/- 5
+/- 10
+/- 20 (2 sets of this one)

Over 7,000 rounds fired with my .308 and no apparent slippage, though I did check the screws not long ago and found they were not quite as tight as I had set them with my Wheeler FAT Wrench. So, I just retorqued them.