. . . nothing new under the sun" - what goes around, comes around . . . 20 Cals rediscovered!

[Gabe22BR]

Wish I could get my hands on a terrific twenty’s book

 

[457ciSBC]

Wish I could get my hands on a terrific twenty’s book

The man himself, member “ High Noon” posted in this thread yesterday, hit him up!

 

[20VarTarg]

Wish I could get my hands on a terrific twenty’s book

Gabe, High Noon is the man you need to talk to. I got my copy roughly 6 months ago. If you are gonna buy the terrific twenties you should go ahead and get the sensational seventeens as well. Woodchuck Den is closed until Jan 4th but leave a message and Todd will give you a call back.

 

[JSH]

Cool, years back I was speaking with Don Unmissig about ordering some bullets and mentioned that I had been toying with necking down the 6.8 spc and pushing the shoulder back at .100, 125 and .150 increments and he said that he had a customer that was doing the same thing and was shooting some remarkable groups. I always believed it was possibly Roy Winnet (20PDK). Later once the PDK series came about, I hit Roy up a couple of times about dies, brass, reamer and then just lost interest. When the 224 Valkyrie came out the first thing I noticed was that it’s basically a -.100 short 224 SPC. Thus, I had to get some brass and neck it down. I might just order a SPC Rem 700 bolt from PTG, which would be full circle for me.

I really do like the visual footprint of 20 Valkyrie, about the same powder capacity as a 20 PPC. I should do a volume comparison of the 20 Beggs, 20 PPC, 20 valkyrie, 20 ARC, 20 Grendel and 20 BR.

I looked at the 20PPC/Grendel. I spoke to a few and they talked me out of it, no real gains over a 204 Ruger. If I went bigger or different and was shooting 40 grain and over, they suggested 20BR or 20-250AI.
I get the trying something different. But easier and cheaper to learn from others that have been there done that experience.
I would go for something if there was some type of gain. I am really surprised no one else has went to a 20 something in a factory chambering. I suspected Nosler would have done the 20Nosler by now, there is a spec drawing floating around and have heard there was even dies, but no brass as the 20 Nosler drawing shows a longer case.
I like wildcats, but I would rather spend my time shooting than working on brass for something that has nothing better than a cartridge I already have.

I am at the point of ordering a new custom barrel in 204 to see what it gives me over a factory rig.

 

[Tommie]

I looked at the 20PPC/Grendel. I spoke to a few and they talked me out of it, no real gains over a 204 Ruger. If I went bigger or different and was shooting 40 grain and over, they suggested 20BR or 20-250AI.
I get the trying something different. But easier and cheaper to learn from others that have been there done that experience.
I would go for something if there was some type of gain. I am really surprised no one else has went to a 20 something in a factory chambering. I suspected Nosler would have done the 20Nosler by now, there is a spec drawing floating around and have heard there was even dies, but no brass as the 20 Nosler drawing shows a longer case.
I like wildcats, but I would rather spend my time shooting than working on brass for something that has nothing better than a cartridge I already have.

I am at the point of ordering a new custom barrel in 204 to see what it gives me over a factory rig.

Agreed - almost completely. I think the Achille’s heel of the .204 Ruger chambering is the Weatherby style freebore.

 

[RGRobinett]

Agreed - almost completely. I think the Achille’s heel of the .204 Ruger chambering is the Weatherby style freebore.

Roger that, very correctable via custom reamer! RG

 

[JSH]

I have not found the 204 to be picky about bullets or powder. MOA was pretty easy to come by with several different combos, long throat and all. As always when seeking itty bitty groups is where we will spend $$$ and time, not thinking twice about it.
The BR and PPC case may make that easier, both are known to do well necked up and down from their parent cases.
If I had shot a 22BR 30 some years ago before I thought the 22-250 was magic, I doubt I would have spent the time I did with it.

 

[jpx2rk]

I was testing some 1x Hornady 204R brass with established loads earlier this week (before the snow and cold got here in E TN) and 3 out of the 4 loads did just "ok" but the load with the 39g Sierra's really shined with a 5 shot group @ 100 that would hide behind a quarter, maybe a nickel but haven't taken the time to measure it yet due to the holidays, I've read where the 204R chamber has a long throat on several different forums, so I just load to what shoots good in my FV12. I'll probably play with the other loads and see what I can do with them in the Hornady brass (1000+ cases for free) when it warms back up a bit. LOL

 

[CWB]

20 Beggs is also a god choice. Simply a 220 Russian case necked down to 20 caliber. It is kinda like a 22ppc short without all the extra work. I took my competition PPC bolt face rifle that I was not using anymore and built the 20 Beggs several years ago. Is is my favorite 20 caliber next to my 20 Vartarg. Very accurate rifle and easily to load for. Makes a great prarie dog shooting rifle for long distances with 39 or 40 grain bullets.

 

[Sauce]

I always thought the .17WSM should have been a .20 Cal.

 

[17VLD]

Was using the search function to find info on Todd's limited run of 25.5 ld 17 caliber bullets modeled after Bergers 6mm 88 grain beauty and ran across this absolute Gold thread on the 20 caliber beginnings and wondered how in heck did I miss this. I must have had my nose stuck in Saubiers or some other unexplainable reason. Proof positive that old threads are definitely worth saving.
Matt

 

[High Noon]

Matt thanks for bringing back this memory of the very first Low Drag seventeen caliber bullet! I decided to tell the unusual story of how it came about……

Thread 'The 25.5 grain seventeen bullet discovered by accident!'

Jun 2, 2025

Small caliber shooting friend Matt Smith just mentioned my Low Drag 25.5 grain seventeen caliber bullet on a twenty caliber thread and I thought I’d shed some light on the story.

One thing I learned early on working at the Research Center was how many things great things were discovered by accident. In over 21 years I was there I witnessed many examples.

Years ago a small box arrived in the mail from Bob Simonson who made all my seventeen bullet making equipment. Receiving small packages from Bob wasn’t anything unusual however what this small box contained was. You see Bob a precision...

• High Noon
• Replies: 10
• Forum: Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s

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[likesguns]

20 Beggs is also a god choice. Simply a 220 Russian case necked down to 20 caliber. It is kinda like a 22ppc short without all the extra work. I took my competition PPC bolt face rifle that I was not using anymore and built the 20 Beggs several years ago. Is is my favorite 20 caliber next to my 20 Vartarg. Very accurate rifle and easily to load for. Makes a great prarie dog shooting rifle for long distances with 39 or 40 grain bullets.

Would you by chance have that 20 beggs reamer to rent or buy? Marvin

 

[CWB]

No Sorry, I don't have a 20 Beggs reamer that I want to rent or sale.

 

[ohlongarmisle]

I have not found the 204 to be picky about bullets or powder. MOA was pretty easy to come by with several different combos, long throat and all. As always when seeking itty bitty groups is where we will spend $$$ and time, not thinking twice about it.
The BR and PPC case may make that easier, both are known to do well necked up and down from their parent cases.
If I had shot a 22BR 30 some years ago before I thought the 22-250 was magic, I doubt I would have spent the time I did with it.

My cheap Thompson Center Venture on an ideal day is capable of this at 100 yards, HSM factory 35 grain Berger flat base. This is what I use for long-range gh's and coyotes.