To Anneal my brass or not?

[RegionRat]

@Bginvestor , In the instance where you find that annealed necks show half the seating force... would you comment on accuracy, velocity stats or group stats, with and without annealing?

 

[Big_Daddy]

Same gun, same exact load, same exact dimensions.....The only difference was annealed or not annealed.
Not making any grand, sweeping statements or representations, just my experience with this gun.

Both groups fired within an hour of each other.

Both groups are 10 rounds and fired at 200 yards.

 

[Bginvestor]

@Bginvestor , In the instance where you find that annealed necks show half the seating force... would you comment on accuracy, velocity stats or group stats, with and without annealing?

RR, Sorry, I don't have any data to offer on accuracy / velocity spreads.. those seating force observations were made many years ago .

 

[giannid]

In LR BR, I haven't seen any difference with annealing or not and I tested for that one season. I choose to anneal simply to extend the life of the brass, and since I have an AMP with Aztec it's fast.

Some in LR BR anneal and some don't. Some of the ones that don't consider the brass only goes with a particular barrel. A couple hundred cases with 6-7 firings on them is usually enough to last the life of the barrel. Lapua cases last that long un-annealed and maybe even longer. With annealing they can last a very long time and still be competitive, wearing out a few barrels.

It's important to remember that just about everything works if one is disciplined and consistent in their processes. An exception to that might be the old "anneal every 3 firings" approach, unless you retune the load after annealing.

If brass isn't annealed, the lot generally work hardens together and changes slowly. Brass annealed every time stays consistent. However, going three firings then annealing is introducing a more significant change that may show up in the target each time the brass is annealed.

So basically what you're saying, is if you decide to anneal, you must do it every reload to keep things consistent?

 

[rjtfroggy]

I personally don't feel it is worth it.
When looking at the cost of brass as compared to the annealer it will take an awful lot of brass to equal out.

 

[Cemetery21]

I'm strange. I hate to use up, wear out, break, or throw away anything. I didn't live through the depression, but my parents did. I anneal because I was splitting necks on up to 15% of my fireformed prairie dog rig brass. It hurt to toss each one. Annealing stopped it cold (or 750 degrees for 6 seconds hehe). Zero split necks now, so far.
Yes, I probably have not saved enough brass to pay for the machine (a Giraud), but I split it with 2 buddies and it makes me happy to put brass back in the shell box instead of in the recycle.

 

[INTJ]

So basically what you're saying, is if you decide to anneal, you must do it every reload to keep things consistent?

Depending on the level of accuracy you need, yes. If you are not chasing the nth level of accuracy it isn't as critical.

 

[INTJ]

I personally don't feel it is worth it.
When looking at the cost of brass as compared to the annealer it will take an awful lot of brass to equal out.

Depends on how much you shoot, how difficult it is to form the brass, and the availability of the brass you need.

 

[JimSC]

Depending on the level of accuracy you need, yes. If you are not chasing the nth level of accuracy it isn't as critical.

the nth degree of accuracy was being achieved long before annealing was common. The AMP came out five years ago if memory serves, propane annealing machines maybe ten years before that.

There are still a lot of IBS records that were set 30 and 40 years ago. The marketing types have just convinced everyone that they have to buy the latest and greatest bench toys or they are doomed

 

[rjtfroggy]

Depends on how much you shoot, how difficult it is to form the brass, and the availability of the brass you need.

I generally shoot weekly and so far I have kept up with my brass needs.
Shooting 6br,30br and 30x47 (6.5x47 necked up) I buy enough for at least 1 full season and so far it has worked out.

 

[RegionRat]

the nth degree of accuracy was being achieved long before annealing was common. The AMP came out five years ago if memory serves, propane annealing machines maybe ten years before that.

There are still a lot of IBS records that were set 30 and 40 years ago. The marketing types have just convinced everyone that they have to buy the latest and greatest bench toys or they are doomed

Jim, I can attest to folks propane torch annealing their bottleneck cases and wildcats many decades before your estimate. I was taught to do it by hand by old timers who had been doing it for a long time, and that was the 60's. Nice machines for hobbyists were built at the cottage industry level and were available when I was a kid in the 60s. Our brass quality was generally poor back then, so neck turning and annealing were not rare among the match shooters and wildcat crowds.

I wasn't keeping stats, but in my opinion the BR crowds were less likely to anneal unless they were wildcat designs. For the ones who shot factory designs, their brass lasted a long time in part due to their chambers and necks being in a different class than other disciplines. By the 70's, silhouette and HP match shooters were annealing and neck turning in order to "make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" so to speak... but not all of them.

Not to dwell on history, your main point is still very important and valid, that many high performance records are set by folks who don't anneal and that is still true now.

 

[CharlieNC]

I did not start annealing in the hopes that it would provide improved precision. I pursued it based upon research to correct an identified problem I encountered with more than normal variability in bullet seating depth associated with seating force. Annealing corrected this problem. This is not to imply it is a universal problem, and probably resulted from a combination of factors. But annealing clearly corrected it. Did it improve precision? Don't know, but it averted a deterioration.

 

[ckaberna]

So I consider myself a fairly new reloader. I've been reloading now about 5 years and have updated just about everything I started with. Go a pretty good setup now and consider myself a decent reloader. I've also developed and produced some pretty good loads for most of my rifles that shoot considerably better than any loaded ammo I've purchased. I'll say the bulk of the ammo i've loaded has been 308 and 223 for the semi auto rifles I shoot the most. Most of this has been loaded from once fired military surplus brass that I've purchased in large quantities when it was cheap. I still have once fired brass in this military surplus that I haven't loaded or fired yet. At this point I believe I've loaded in excess of five thousand rounds.

I also have some bolt action rifles like a 6.5 creedmoor, 300 wsm and 338 that I load for. I just put together a new 6.5 creedmoor Tikka with a proof barrel. I'm in the process of developing a load for this rifle and am using hornady 6.5 creedmoor brass from two other rifles that have came and gone. Problem is I have no ideal how many firings the brass has. It's been mixed and matched between the bolt and semi auto gun I had in 6.5 creedmoor. The good new is is the rifle is shooting great. With my first range session with the rifle, I shot just over a half inch group at 200 yards with one of the three bullet/load combinations I loaded.

So I'm looking at all this mixed brass I have that's all Hornady and wondering if I should consider Annealing it. I never really thought about it much as most of the stuff I loaded has been military brass that I have a boat load of. With this bolt action, I obviously don't have as much. Not to mention it's slim pickings finding new brass. I'm the kind of person that wants to do things right and just starting to look into this annealing process. I'm just wondering if it's just better to fire the brass four or five times and thrash it, or get into annealing. I'm not even sure it's going to extend the life of the brass much. I've got the 6.5 shooting pretty well so far with the hornady brass, I'm not sure I'm not going to squeeze out much more accuracy out of it. I've also never done any neck turning of my brass. One thing I have done that's improved the repeatability of my loads is removed all the expander balls of my full length dies and using a mandrel after putting the brass through the FL die.

So should I jump on the annealing bandwagon or not? Looks like a decent annealing rig will by me a lot of brass. I'm just not sure how much I'm going to gain from it. I do have a 500 yard range and hoping to go try and bang steel at 1000 plus yards someday soon.

3 pages of advice for one question. You seriously should consider becoming a paid member.

 

[rardoin]

3 pages of advice for one question. You seriously should consider becoming a paid member.

Pm sent

 

[giannid]

Well gentleman, I have an Annie coming from a member here. I decided to add it to my reloading equipment. Not sure if I should anneal all of my Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor tha I'm currently doing load development with. Don't really have an ideal how many firings it has. I'd venture to say 3 to 4. Not sure if it'll hurt or help. Since I purchased the machine, I'm just going to anneal my brass every firing to keep things consistent.

 

[Richard Coody]

I'm trying to figure out where the point of diminishing returns is with reloading. Like I said, the guns I shoot the most are semi auto's and I shoot mostly military surplus fired brass. I've got thousands of rounds of brass that I haven't even fired yet. I've got a 338 LM and a 300WSM that I've purchased expensive norma and Lapua brass for. Those guns I shoot the least as they're mostly hunting rifles and not pleasant to shoot anyways. Then there's this creedmoor which will be my most fired bolt gun. I really don't see any point at using better brass than Hornady as it shoots better than me. Not sure it's really worth annealing Hornady brass as long as it's available to purchase. Hell, if I can get 6 or 7 firings out of Horandy and it still shoot accurately, I'd say the hell with annealing. Thoughts?

I think you answered your question

Why do it if you can't see the difference on your target

 

[Richard Coody]

The best answer to whether to anneal or not is to look at the number of top shooters in the different disciplines and ask , "Do they anneal" ? The simple answer is yes . The majority of them do . Why do they do it ? Consistency ...So regardless of which machine you use to anneal , it does have a benefit . Unless you have a forever , non-ending supply of once-fired brass . I shoot F-class , TR with a 308 , Lapua Palma cases , and have over twenty firings on my "Practice" brass , and I'm only now starting to lose 1 or 2 cases per 50 practice rounds due to primer pockets enlarging . If you do the math , I think that has come close to paying for my Anealeez , when you consider the cost of Lapua cases .

Top Shooters?

Do you have the same quality of equipment and expectations of precision they do?

If not you may be wasting time and money

 

[D-4297]

Top Shooters?

Do you have the same quality of equipment and expectations of precision they do?

If not you may be wasting time and money

I would like to think so . I'm shooting a Kelby F-TR with the Kelby TR stock , 180 Freebore in a Kreiger 30" - 5r . Scopes are Vortex GE's . Lapua SRP brass , Berger 185 Jugg OTM . Load on two RCBS single stage presses . Both Redding Type "S" F/L Bushing , and Whidden Custom F/L Bushing dies . And I have a Mid-Range Master rating .