20 Practical Issue

[Richard Jones]

Fired rounds measure 1.4550-1.4555 at the shoulder with a .330 comparator. I am bumping the shoulder back .002 with a Redding 223 bushing die, no problem, but base is still too large to chamber easily. If I crank the die down enough to fix the base, the shoulder is way too short. To remedy this I am using a 6x45 small base die, less the innards, to reduce the base and then use the bushing die and then use a mandrel for desired neck tension.

What's going on here with the need for the body die?

Thanks.

 

[sean68]

Your chamber is too small at the base for the Redding die. My 20 Practical is the same way. PTG reamer. I have to use a 223 small base body die. I called Dave Kiff and told him his standard 20 practical reamer is too small for use with a Redding .223 S die with a 20 caliber bushing, which was the whole point of them being “practical”. He told me I was the only one who ever complained.

 

[Jdne5b]

Same here. I have the PTG 20P reamer. It's pretty a tight chamber. I believe the Redding will size a case fired from the 20p chamber just fine. It's just the initial forming that's an issue for me.

I actually found that my Hornady 223 die was sufficiently tighter than the Redding to work. So I removed the expander ball and run the case through the Hornady, then through the redding die with appropriate bushing for final sizing.

 

[Richard Jones]

That makes sense. Yes, PTG reamer.

@Jdne5b , my Redding S die won't work after firing unless I bump the shoulder way too much.

Thanks, guys, this one stumped me. Guess I already had 'the fix', just didn't know why. I'll check to see if RCBS or Redding FLS dies will work as well.

 

[sean68]

My reamer print from 2006 shows .3773” at the base and .3743” @ .200 up from the base. If that is what you have, it is way too small and won’t work with a standard die of any kind, if your chamber was cut on size. I wouldn’t bother buying other standard dies unless you know your chamber is closer to saami, which it sounds like jdne5b may have. If you use a Redding .223 small base body die then your S die you should be OK. One extra step.

 

[Richard Jones]

So, after a lot of pondering and adjusting and measuring and Dykeming, it turns out that the base was OK. The bushing die won't reduce the base of the shoulder enough, which is where the RCBS SB die comes in. Also, the bushing has to be all the way down in order to form correctly, so I can't leave it loose at all. I'm still able to meet my target shoulder dimension, so all good. Not crazy about the extra step, but live and learn. SB die, then S die, correct, that's what I'm doing.

Fun stuff.

Maybe this will save someone else the headache. JGS reamer looks better and better................

Anyone else find the shoulder base issue?

Thanks again.

 

[457ciSBC]

Your chamber is too small at the base for the Redding die. My 20 Practical is the same way. PTG reamer. I have to use a 223 small base body die. I called Dave Kiff and told him his standard 20 practical reamer is too small for use with a Redding .223 S die with a 20 caliber bushing, which was the whole point of them being “practical”. He told me I was the only one who ever complained.

I have to do the same thing.

 

[Cemetery21]

Odd that they would spec a reamer that wouldn't work with standard dies.
My three 20Ps work fine with a Redding type S. I don't know who made the reamer - GS ordered it new for 6 rifles he was building for two buddies and me about 5 years ago. One of mine is a prechambered BHW AR barrel. It also runs fine with the standard Redding S die.

 

[Richard Jones]

Odd, yes, and it's Shilen. Certainly not their first boat ride.

Odder still is that my 6x45 AR doesn't need the SB die, but this bolt gun does,,,,,,ha!!

 

[jpx2rk]

I found that I should/need to use a SB die on the brass for both my 6x45 & 20P bolt guns, otherwise there were numerous rounds that would not chamber easily. The SB die does the trick for me.

 

[Richard Jones]

I found that I should/need to use a SB die on the brass for both my 6x45 & 20P bolt guns, otherwise there were numerous rounds that would not chamber easily. The SB die does the trick for me.

Do you know whose reamer was used?

 

[RegionRat]

Also, pay attention to the bushing direction. Some bushings show a difference between one side and the other in terms of the chamfer, so you may need to play the games with one side down versus the other side down to see what you like best.

 

[jepp2]

You guys are making me really glad I use a 20P die for all my sizing needs. Never a problem in many different chambers.

 

[jpx2rk]

Do you know whose reamer was used?

The 20P is from X caliber, the 6x45 is from Preferred barrels. Had basically the same issue with both rifles after getting them put together on R783 & RAR actions. Using the SB die virtually eliminated this issue for me but I have gotten into the habit of testing/chambering the newly formed brass before loading just because I hate to load a round and it NOT chamber at the range. If my test chambering reveals a case that does not chamber easily, then I just trash that piece of brass and move on.

 

[457ciSBC]

Odd that they would spec a reamer that wouldn't work with standard dies.

Not really, it’s the world of wildcatting, these things happen. When folks produce wildcats the thought of working with every companies dies are not necessarily a thought. If the common Kevin Weaver 20 print was SAAMI, it would not be .3743 @.200. The original 20P print is closer to a match style reamer. If wanted to use that reamer across all platforms, using many brands of brass it needs a little tweaking.

 

[457ciSBC]

Not really, it’s the world of wildcatting, these things happen. That common unaltered Kevin Weaver 20 Practical print is the one that has the issue.

Your chamber is too small at the base for the Redding die. My 20 Practical is the same way. PTG reamer. I have to use a 223 small base body die. I called Dave Kiff and told him his standard 20 practical reamer is too small for use with a Redding .223 S die with a 20 caliber bushing, which was the whole point of them being “practical”. He told me I was the only one who ever complained.

Some of the PTG .223 based reamer prints are “match” small at the .200 region, you have to watch out for this. The SAMMI FL die can’t size the case down if the brass is not big enough in that region.

 

[Richard Jones]

So I muddied this up some more by injecting a 20 cal neck die into the mix. So now the entire neck is sized and it affects the chambering. I believe this is called a workaround............ Not very Practical, but I shall overcome.

Will mess with this some more tonight and see how complicated I can make it.

 

[457ciSBC]

Remington should have left the 17 Fireball (SAMMI 17mach IV) on the table and choose a SAAMI 20 Practical with 1-10 twist barrel. it would have breathed new life in the .20 cal.

If enough if folks are interested I’m sure we could get Hornady to make a custom standard 20 Practical FL die.

 

[rogina]

Your chamber is too small at the base for the Redding die. My 20 Practical is the same way. PTG reamer. I have to use a 223 small base body die. I called Dave Kiff and told him his standard 20 practical reamer is too small for use with a Redding .223 S die with a 20 caliber bushing, which was the whole point of them being “practical”. He told me I was the only one who ever complained.

I went the 20 tac route with a Kiff reamer and never had any of these problems. Just use a Redding full length bushing die. Doesn't sound very "practical" to me. My reamer is the same as Cooper's.

 

[sean68]

I went the 20 tac route with a Kiff reamer and never had any of these problems. Just use a Redding full length bushing die. Doesn't sound very "practical" to me. My reamer is the same as Cooper's.

Ptg makes reamers of all dimensions per whatever the customer wants. I built that 20 prac rifle 15 years ago before I really understood the relationship between chamber reamers and sizing dies and just used the reamer they suggested. It wouldn’t happen that way today. Unfortunately, I have a bin of wildcat reamers in my shop from years ago that have caused various sizing issues. Nowadays every dimension on every reamer that gets near my lathe is very carefully specified to avoid sizing die issues. I could order a reamer from PTG or whoever that is larger and re-cut the chamber in my rifle and it would work with standard dies, but it’s not worth it. The extra small base sizing die step causes me about 3 minutes of extra work a year for aIl the more I load for that hunting rifle.