Standard Dies or Bushing Dies test

[Rick Ratzlaff]

I think I know the answer to this. However, I'd like to hear if anyone has objectively and collected data on this experiment.

If a gun shoots sub-MOA reloading with standard dies and gets good case life, what might one expect by purchasing bushing dies?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I think I know the answer to this. However, I'd like to hear if anyone has objectively and collected data on this experiment.

If a gun shoots sub-MOA reloading with standard dies and gets good case life, what might one expect by purchasing bushing dies?

They would expect a higher quality die generally, they would also gain the advantage of being able to further tune their load with different neck tensions- sometimes this is very necessary as brass ages or different lots are used. Benchrest shooters, having the most accurate guns in the world, cant be wrong.

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

Thanks, Dusty. I guess I missed my point. What might one expect in MOA improvement?

 

[RegionRat]

The challenge to this question is the same as the one with regular die neck diameters. Unless you test, you will never know.

A good bushing die allows you to experiment with the necks. If your recipe isn’t particularly neck tension sensitive, then you won’t gain anything. However, if your recipe is sensitive, then playing with that diameter is the only way to answer the question. You can accomplish the same with regular dies, but you have to have a spread of diameters.

I have not seen the question put to bed in a parametric study that can predict when this needs to be played and when it doesn’t matter in terms of what context makes it important versus negligible.

In my own better barrels, I can get good performance with some recipes in a high, medium, and low neck tension when the whole recipe is tuned to match. In those bbls, you don’t want to change the neck tension during a match so I just manage it by batch controls and that is easy enough.

In some of my better sporting 30 cal bbls, the wrong neck tensions turns a load from 3/4 MOA into 2 to 3 MOA all other things being equal. I don’t see that much group change in 6 BR, but I do see POI shift.

 

[Bruce W]

You can turn your necks and still control neck tension with bushing dies. Turning necks reduces the neck wall variation and aligns the bullet to the bore. Maybe one more thing to contribute to good groups.

 

[47WillysGuy]

I think a custom bushing sizing die would decrease the MOA more so than going to an off the shelf die. Don’t think there would be much if any gain. My $0.02!

 

[sdean]

Thanks, Dusty. I guess I missed my point. What might one expect in MOA improvement?

Really only 1 way to find out Rick..

 

[D-4297]

When I converted from standard full length die to a F/L Bushing Die , and was able to adjust neck interference to .001 , my F-TR scores went up 8 - 10 points immediately , and continued adjustments with the F/L Bushing Die also improved scores and rating from Sharpshooter to Master . Or maybe my loading practices improved , too .

 

[kyreloader]

Use different sized mandrels with your die if you want to control neck tension/inference.

 

[Kings X]

When I converted from standard full length die to a F/L Bushing Die , and was able to adjust neck interference to .001 , my F-TR scores went up 8 - 10 points immediately , and continued adjustments with the F/L Bushing Die also improved scores and rating from Sharpshooter to Master . Or maybe my loading practices improved , too .

Did you turn your neck or just push the runout to the inside ?

 

[D-4297]

I have a no-turn chamber . I tried turning necks once , and watched my scores go in the toilet . Several very highly regarded F-TR shooters I shoot with did a un-official study for over a year , turning necks in no-turn chambers , and saw zero benefit to doing it . I use a Bushing Die , followed by a expander . Anneal after every firing .

 

[Ned Ludd]

I think the answer to your question would largely depend on how good were the results that you were initially getting with the standard die. If you have a good die, set it up properly, and were getting good precision, the difference may well be negligible. If you were unfortunate enough to get a bad die, or it wasn't set up optimally, you might see a noticeable improvement after switching to the bushing die. Unfortunately, there is no possible way someone can know the answer to this question at the other end of an internet shooting forum, at least not without more extensive information on your current results with the standard die. A direct side-by-side comparison is the best way to answer this question definitively.