Bullet seating and crimping on Lee progressive

[Crazywolf71]

So i am new to the site and new to reloading. I have two lee Progressive presses one setup for pistol ammo and one for rifle. I reloaded some .44 mag with 23.4 gr of Hogdon H110 cci large pistol magnum primers and a 200 gr bullet. I fired them out of my Ruger Blackhawk. Everything went well until the 5th round experienced a primer fire but no powder ignition. Not thinking I cycled the 6th and final round. Split the barrel in half. The primer fire was enough to discharge the bullet from the case but not push it thru the barrel. The 6th round pushed it thru the barrel but not until the pressure split the barrel right down the middle. You can literally see the bulge where the the bullet was sitting in the barrel when round 6 fired.
So now the real reason for my post. I have played around with bullet seating and have it so the area of the bullet so you can't see it in the brass. The question becomes crimping. Should the bullet been able to dislodge from just the primer fire should i have crimped it tighter? I played with the seating alot and what i had with these rounds gave me almost the same length as the off the shelf bullet i was mimicking and if tried to put any more pressure on it the brass kind of wrinkles. How do i master the crimp with the lee .44 bullet seater/ crimp. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[MikeT124]

Time for a new gun. With that large of a powder charge you should be able to weigh each cartridge and find any additional no powder loads, I would be very suspicious of any rounds weighing more than about 10-12 grains less than the average of the remaining loads. The obvious lesson for the day is when you have a squib load before firing the next round take the cylinder out and check the barrel. Do the bullets you are using have a canalour (sorry about the spelling) the pleated area around the bullet that tells you where to crimp it, or in a lead bullet they usually have an indented ring around the bullet for the same reason. If you successfully fired 4 rounds and didn't lock up the cylinder with bullets moving out of the case do to recoil I would say your crimping is probably fine. With 44 mags you should be able to see an obvious crimp in the mouth of the brass and the fact that with a load that stout you didn't get any bullets moving forward your crimp seems to be OK. And yes a magnum primer should be able to dislodge a bullet from a case without the help of powder. Crimping is a balance game, to little you have crawling bullets and a locked up revolver, too much and you start exceeding the pressure the revolver is designed for and /or recoil gets significantly higher than you should be experiencing. If you would like to post a few pictures of the of the crimp area of your reloaded rounds or compare them to factory heavy magnum loaded ammo should give you a good idea of what a good crimp looks like.

Mike

 

[SSL]

A small, intense and focused light directed into the case at the bullet seating station will give you a view of the powder level of the load. There are press light kits available on Ebay or you can alter a light kit made for a sewing machine. These stick to the underside of the press head and are quite bright. You may have to position your chair a little higher and to one side a touch to see into the case, but you'll get used to the position quickly.
Even a standard primer can break a heavy crimp but will usually lodge the bullet in the forcing cone and lock up the cylinder, but you can't trust that. Bullet weight figures into it too. I'm curious about how it happened. Did your disk or charge bar not travel fully or even not at all? If you are using disks, I would recommend changing to the charge bar. Disks seemed to always give me problems so I switched to the bars and they travel much smoother and adjust for a far more accurate powder charge. If you use a standard powder measure in the expander die, then obviously you forgot to throw the charge.
CRAZYWOLF is right, if it goes 'pop' and little to no recoil, STOP and check that bore! Glad it was only the gun that got damaged. Consider it a lesson learned and refine your loading techniques. Good luck and stay safe.

 

[Crazywolf71]

So u have attached a picture of one of the rounds I have left. I had only loaded 8 didn't want to run a bunch until I was sure of how they would work. Yes the bullets have crenelle (again spelling). I looked at the stock bullets other then their crenelle is showing above the brass I dont see a difference. The powder i used was one if the recommended ones in my Hornady cartridge books at there recommended grain. I stayed away from the max measure

 

[Crazywolf71]

Also picture if gun for a visual

 

[noylj]

Yes, primers are more than powerful enough to blow the bullet out of the case and well into the barrel. I used to use a magnum primer only to propel cast bullets into a soft backstop so I could measure the groove diameter. Along about 1980, primers stopped being able to do the job and I had to go back to pounding a ball of lead through the barrel.
Where was the powder? If you blew the bullet into the barrel, there should have been powder left over, unless (being 296/H110) it left a semi-melted blob of powder in the barrel also. Never ever fire after any squib/slow ignition round without a light down the bore.

 

[Crazywolf71]

Yes, primers are more than powerful enough to blow the bullet out of the case and well into the barrel. I used to use a magnum primer only to propel cast bullets into a soft backstop so I could measure the groove diameter. Along about 1980, primers stopped being able to do the job and I had to go back to pounding a ball of lead through the barrel.
Where was the powder? If you blew the bullet into the barrel, there should have been powder left over, unless (being 296/H110) it left a semi-melted blob of powder in the barrel also. Never ever fire after any squib/slow ignition round without a light down the bore.

If you look below if there was powder in the barrel it wasn't there after the blow out

 

[Crazywolf71]

A small, intense and focused light directed into the case at the bullet seating station will give you a view of the powder level of the load. There are press light kits available on Ebay or you can alter a light kit made for a sewing machine. These stick to the underside of the press head and are quite bright. You may have to position your chair a little higher and to one side a touch to see into the case, but you'll get used to the position quickly.
Even a standard primer can break a heavy crimp but will usually lodge the bullet in the forcing cone and lock up the cylinder, but you can't trust that. Bullet weight figures into it too. I'm curious about how it happened. Did your disk or charge bar not travel fully or even not at all? If you are using disks, I would recommend changing to the charge bar. Disks seemed to always give me problems so I switched to the bars and they travel much smoother and adjust for a far more accurate powder charge. If you use a standard powder measure in the expander die, then obviously you forgot to throw the charge.
CRAZYWOLF is right, if it goes 'pop' and little to no recoil, STOP and check that bore! Glad it was only the gun that got damaged. Consider it a lesson learned and refine your loading techniques. Good luck and stay safe.

Its possible that I did not stay organized enough. I managed each die separately. Made sure the primers were being knocked out in station one. Then I went to bullet seating ran thru the system no primers no powder. Then moved on to primer powder. The problem with the lee press is that the primer feeder doesn't work well. I decided to save making a mess I would run the cases thru with no powder no bullets and let the primers load as best they could. Then when I had enough primed I removed the deprimer pin and turned in the powder. What I think happened is I did not remove one of my trial seating bullets and there was probably no powder in the bullet. And then my dumb self just pulled back the hammer and fired again. An expensive lesson to be sure

 

[SSL]

Its possible that I did not stay organized enough. I managed each die separately. Made sure the primers were being knocked out in station one. Then I went to bullet seating ran thru the system no primers no powder. Then moved on to primer powder. The problem with the lee press is that the primer feeder doesn't work well. I decided to save making a mess I would run the cases thru with no powder no bullets and let the primers load as best they could. Then when I had enough primed I removed the deprimer pin and turned in the powder. What I think happened is I did not remove one of my trial seating bullets and there was probably no powder in the bullet. And then my dumb self just pulled back the hammer and fired again. An expensive lesson to be sure

Which Lee press are you using? I used to have priming issues with my LoadMaster until I installed the upgraded primer feeder. Never another problem. I think there is one for the Pro series too. Might want to check it out.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Crazywolf71

Below is an image of crimps showing under and over crimps and a proper crimp.

Below is your cartridge in the photo and I do not see any crimp.
Question, are your bullets plated bullets? When I use plated bullets I use light loads of fast burning powders with a light crimp. This prevents splitting the thin plating that can cause problems.

And below are good roll crimps on .45 Colt cases.

 

[Crazywolf71]

Crazywolf71

Below is an image of crimps showing under and over crimps and a proper crimp.

Below is your cartridge in the photo and I do not see any crimp.
Question, are your bullets plated bullets? When I use plated bullets I use light loads of fast burning powders with a light crimp. This prevents splitting the thin plating that can cause problems.

And below are good roll crimps on .45 Colt cases.

So I want to see where the bullet is in the case. The blazer rounds I have didn't have that. So I tried to make sure I didn't have it either

 

[Crazywolf71]

Which Lee press are you using? I used to have priming issues with my LoadMaster until I installed the upgraded primer feeder. Never another problem. I think there is one for the Pro series too. Might want to check it out.

It is a pro 1000 3 die. I was actually just looking thru my river ridge catalog and saw some improved feeder. Will do my research this weekend.

 

[Crazywolf71]

Crazywolf71

Below is an image of crimps showing under and over crimps and a proper crimp.

Below is your cartridge in the photo and I do not see any crimp.
Question, are your bullets plated bullets? When I use plated bullets I use light loads of fast burning powders with a light crimp. This prevents splitting the thin plating that can cause problems.

And below are good roll crimps on .45 Colt cases.

As far as the bullet powder measure goes they are 240 gr fmj berry's I think. I filled the guide out of my hornady book. What would you recommend.

 

[pirate ammo]

Find someone that loads a lot of handgun ammo close by and talk to him. I put a good crimp on my 44 mag.
can't explain you have to see. I'm using a LEE Loadmaster on them and weigh every charge.

 

[pirate ammo]

Below is your cartridge in the photo and I do not see any crimp.

Did you notice where the crimp groove is in relation to the case mouth? Not quite there.

 

[noylj]

If you look below if there was powder in the barrel it wasn't there after the blow out

So, maybe it was a no-powder everyday squib?

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

It was most definitely a "no powder" squib. Crimp had nothing to do with it. Any round that doesn't feel right, sound right or otherwise doesn't seem right , means stop shooting, unload gun, check cylinders and barrel for obstruction before reloading.

Frank