Suggestions Need on Case FL Sizing

[nr123]

on sizing some 6.5 cm brass. I'm an old time shooter, also been reloading over 55 years, rifle, pistol, and shotgun. I'm pretty new here, but have been visiting for quite a while. I'm loading for my Bergara Ridgeback 6.5, using Redding dies, no problems.
My buddy, who owns a lot of my hunting areas, bought a Savage 110 (think that's right) in 6.5 cm. I tried sizing his brass in my Redding dies, with Imperial lube, won't come close to sizing. I tried a couple of times, just enough to scratch up my dies. I had to send them back to Redding to have them polished.
I learned my lesson, bought some RCBS dies. After numerous calls trying to figure out what's going on, Redding tech told me to try some Bio-Green lube. It works, but I have to size once after backing die out 1-2 turns, then screw die down, and size again.
Last week, at my range, I picked up some Hornady and S & B brass thinking I would just use it and forget his brass. Wouldn't you know, they won't size in the RCBS dies, this time using Hornady case lube!!
I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds, in a multitude of calibers, never encountered this before.
I would appreciate any suggestions ref: the cause and cure to this sizing problem. Many thanks...

 

[K22]

Define what you mean by "won't come close to sizing."

If you're full sizing and adjusting the die per the manufacturer's instructions, i.e. 1/4 turn down from contact with the shell holder you could be over sizing.

Each rifle is different so you have to set the full sizing die to match the chamber of that rifle. Here's the procedure I use. This assumes a set of dedicated cases for that rifle, all the same lot and same brand, fired only in that rifle, the starting point was with new cases. Cases are rotated in firing thus having the same number of firings.

1. Take a fired case from that rifle, remove the primer (without sizing the case). Measure the case head space with a caliper and bump gauge. I like to measure three cases in the group to be sized.

2. Next turn the die down to make firm contact with the shell holder (no cam over). Lube the case. Imperial sizing wax is excellent in my experience. Size the case. Remove the lube and measure the case head space. Ideally what you're looking for is a .001 to .002" shoulder set back from the fired conditon.

3. If necessary, adjust the die a small amount at a time until you achieve that amount of set back.

4. Once you achieve that amount of set back check the sized case in the rifle chamber to access the fit. There should only be a slight resistance to closing the bolt. Once this is acheived the die is set for sizing cases for that rifle and lot of cases and should work for several reloads but periodically check since cases hardened with repeated firing and some adjustment may be needed.

If the cases are from different lots, different brands, range brass from unknown sources from varying rifles and varying times reloaded (i.e. case hardening) don't expect consistent measurements.

 

[243winxb]

Use the old method.

 

[divingin]

Last week, at my range, I picked up some Hornady and S & B brass thinking I would just use it and forget his brass. Wouldn't you know, they won't size in the RCBS dies, this time using Hornady case lube!!

If you're using the Hornady spray lube, make sure you 1) get even coverage over at least most of the case exterior, b) get some in the inside neck, and C) LET IT DRY before sizing (takes 5 to 10 minutes.)

 

[nr123]

Thanks guys, I've tried most of your suggestions. I did try sizing new brass fired in his gun, plus some fired brass from my rifle that he fired. I think the bottom line, after MANY calls and conversations, the Savage has a larger than spec chamber. It will fire factory ammo with no problems, and is pretty accurate for a cheaper gun.
However, after tumbling his brass and lubing with Imperial wax, his brass will bind in the sizing die before getting halfway into the die. This is true for both the Redding and RCBS dies. I know how to set up the dies, but when the brass starts locking down, I don't need a stuck case. I didn't use Hornady spray, I learned that lesson too. I tried the Hornady lube in a small container.
I've also done all the measuring on the shoulder, etc, but when you can't get the case into the die, it doesn't really matter. The Bio-Green lube was the only thing that helped, but having to partially size, with die backed off, and follow up with the die screwed down, is a royal pain.
Savage's response, which I can understand, is : if the gun will function and fire with Hornady match ammo, it meets our specs and standards. We can't get involved with reloading issues, not knowing the experience and procedures used by the reloader. They did say they would check the chamber, if I would send it in. Two issues, not my gun, and it fired factory ammo with no problems.
Guess I was grasping at straws by trying range brass, guess they were shooting Savages too. I think the gun would be fine with a spec chamber, but my buddy is reluctant to replacing the bbl on a new gun, or having a custom die made. I can understand Savage's policy, don't know if this is an isolated problem or not. Told my buddy that he may have to shoot factory ammo, or reload new brass, but for now, both are hard to find. Appreciate all suggestions.

 

[338 dude]

Not much of a solution just makes it slightly easier you said you have two sets of dies run the one set loose and the second set to the proper headspace you still have to switch – but at least you would not have to readjust them each time

 

[Uncle Ed]

The new dies have a dry spray-on anti-corrosion coating. And if not removed properly can make sizing very hard to near impossible. All my new dies tell you to clean the dies with a bore solvent like Hoppe's. (RTFM)

The only cases I have ever had a problem sizing were Lake City 7.62 machine gun fired brass. And it didn't matter what brand of case lube you used. And if you kept trying to size them normally you might dislocate your shoulder. Plus end up looking like a crab with one arm much bigger than the other.

Another problem could be super clean brass like wet tumbled cases and their added drag. And the Sierra manual tells you dirty brass sizes easier than wet tumbled. (I guess Sierra doesn't sell wet tumblers)

If any dirt or grit gets embedded inside the die it will increase the sizing effort. This happens if you read the Sierra manual and resize dirty brass.

And you can polish the insides of your dies with a snug fitting shotgun cleaning mop attached to a drill. Just apply some J&B bore paste, automotive polishing or rubbing compound, Mothers Mag and Wheel Polish, etc. The dies are heat treated and polishing will not affect the dimensions of the die.

If you are lazy you can disassemble the die and put the die body in a vibratory tumbler with treated walnut media. This will polish the die body inside and out, "BUT" you will need to clean and remove the polishing rouge as it will add friction.

And now the bad news, on aircraft 97% of all crashes are caused by human error and only 3% by mechanical failures. So ask yourself what you might be doing wrong.

No reloading dies were hurt or injured during the making of this posting.

 

[JFrank]

on sizing some 6.5 cm brass. I'm an old time shooter, also been reloading over 55 years, rifle, pistol, and shotgun. I'm pretty new here, but have been visiting for quite a while. I'm loading for my Bergara Ridgeback 6.5, using Redding dies, no problems.
My buddy, who owns a lot of my hunting areas, bought a Savage 110 (think that's right) in 6.5 cm. I tried sizing his brass in my Redding dies, with Imperial lube, won't come close to sizing. I tried a couple of times, just enough to scratch up my dies. I had to send them back to Redding to have them polished.
I learned my lesson, bought some RCBS dies. After numerous calls trying to figure out what's going on, Redding tech told me to try some Bio-Green lube. It works, but I have to size once after backing die out 1-2 turns, then screw die down, and size again.
Last week, at my range, I picked up some Hornady and S & B brass thinking I would just use it and forget his brass. Wouldn't you know, they won't size in the RCBS dies, this time using Hornady case lube!!
I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds, in a multitude of calibers, never encountered this before.
I would appreciate any suggestions ref: the cause and cure to this sizing problem. Many thanks...

This has happened to me so I’ve had dies honed out to fit my chamber, I Take a few measurements of the brass before fired then 1or 2 x fired for radial exspansion at the case shoulder junction also the base.
I’m in the camp of moving brass the least amount possible about .002 is about right at those datums also be aware of the length of the die over bumpin or not enough.
I will also draw out a diagram of each case to keep all the numbers clear and simple. Honing is cheap....

Alex Wheeler has a video similar to this topic IIRC