Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Always believe the internet. Some benchrest guys never win either.
ATTN: CLR users...
- Thread starter ridgeway
- Start date
Dusty if its on the internet it has to be true.
Erud,
I will just say this and leave it at that. The number 1 thing I find when someone tells me their accuracy dropped off is a dirty bore. Either its plugged with carbon or copper. I have had some very experienced PRS and F class shooters bring me a rifle and they swore up would not shoot anymore.
Guess what after I cleaned them they were back to shooting great.
I know some very good F class shooters that clean between strings. One has 149 first place plaques on the wall.
If you want to put that CLR in your barrel go for it. If you dont want to clean until 200 rounds have at it. Good day.
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
For 20 years or so I have soaked at 12 hr intervals with those"corrosive bore cleaners". I guess I must always get special barrels, never had problem, go figure. Bore cleaners with lots of ammonia i.e. Sweets and Montana Extreme, the 2 I use, will not harm your barrel as long as you do not let it dry. If it drys it will form ammonia salts that could maybe, harm you barrel . Now, back to the 15 min deal. They are smart folks, they want you to buy lots of their product. One patch or 2 every 8 to 12 hrs or 40 or 50 patches. Get it. I have often taken clean as a whistle, spotless even guns from friends, left them soak, show them the patches, they are amazed. Soak for a good cleaning is what I believe in and practice. No soak, doubt if it's really clean.
149? That is definitely impressive. Usually plaques are only given out for big matches like state and national championships, etc. F-class has really only been a sport for 20-ish years, so that guy has to be kicking ass all over the country, all the time to average 8-ish major match wins/year since the inception of the sport. Who is this guy?Dusty if its on the internet it has to be true.
Erud,
I will just say this and leave it at that. The number 1 thing I find when someone tells me their accuracy dropped off is a dirty bore. Either its plugged with carbon or copper. I have had some very experienced PRS and F class shooters bring me a rifle and they swore up would not shoot anymore.
Guess what after I cleaned them they were back to shooting great.
I know some very good F class shooters that clean between strings. One has 149 first place plaques on the wall.
If you want to put that CLR in your barrel go for it. If you dont want to clean until 200 rounds have at it. Good day.
I’ve yet to see any f-class or HP shooter regularly cleaning barrels between strings. That doesn't mean no one does it, but I've never noticed it. As mentioned above, if shooting a regular match on pulled targets, there’s really not time for cleaning in between the other match duties, even for your 10-minute routine. But then I don’t know anyone with 149 first place plaques on their wall either. So what do you think about everyone else who doesn’t clean their barrels between strings, but still manage to shoot ok, win matches, and not have carbon problems?
You must have missed Jelenko’s question (twice, actually) above; what discipline did you say you shoot? I looked at the web page in your signature and didn’t see any testimonials or anything, looked like mostly hunting rifles. Nothing wrong with hunting rifles, but I’m thinking the guys bringing their rifles in to you for cleaning are not the same guys who are on this board.
So now my rifle building is being questioned? Really???? Yes I do have guys on this board I have built comp rifles for and yes I also have guys on the board I have built hunting rifles for. I dont do testimonials as I see no point. I have enough word to mouth business and repeat business. I have about 50 complete builds I do a year that does not count cerakote and other things.
So you asked about my creds wheres yours? Post up some scores of yours and post up your ranking. Where are you located in MN where do you shoot at? Who do you shoot with? I can be an arrogant prick too.
As for the guy I was talking about its the same guy that taught me how to chamber and machine a barrel almost 10 years ago. Bob Pastor aka the Viper. As for what my shooting discipline is/ was , shooting steel off a bipod out to a mile, long range hunting and for a few years I shot indoor 3 position small bore.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Arrogant? Seriously. Your continuing to press the case that everyone should be able to clean during matches even after you've been given input that it isn't practical in some disciplines is about as arrogant as it gets.So now my rifle building is being questioned? Really???? Yes I do have guys on this board I have built comp rifles for and yes I also have guys on the board I have built hunting rifles for. I dont do testimonials as I see no point. I have enough word to mouth business and repeat business. I have about 50 complete builds I do a year that does not count cerakote and other things.
So you asked about my creds wheres yours? Post up some scores of yours and post up your ranking. Where are you located in MN where do you shoot at? Who do you shoot with? I can be an arrogant prick too.
As for the guy I was talking about its the same guy that taught me how to chamber and machine a barrel almost 10 years ago. Bob Pastor aka the Viper. As for what my shooting discipline is/ was , shooting steel off a bipod out to a mile, long range hunting and for a few years I shot indoor 3 position small bore.
Do you just not believe the input - even though you have no experience in 'cross the course' or long range high power?
Quote me on where I said that? I believe I said in 2 different posts if you dont want to clean dont....
Oh boy. You list your web page in your signature line, don’t get offended if someone clicks on it. I didn’t see a single competition rifle on your page or any mention of them, so it would be hard to guess that you build competition rifles.So now my rifle building is being questioned? Really???? Yes I do have guys on this board I have built comp rifles for and yes I also have guys on the board I have built hunting rifles for. I dont do testimonials as I see no point. I have enough word to mouth business and repeat business. I have about 50 complete builds I do a year that does not count cerakote and other things.
So you asked about my creds wheres yours? Post up some scores of yours and post up your ranking. Where are you located in MN where do you shoot at? Who do you shoot with? I can be an arrogant prick too.
As for the guy I was talking about its the same guy that taught me how to chamber and machine a barrel almost 10 years ago. Bob Pastor aka the Viper. As for what my shooting discipline is/ was , shooting steel off a bipod out to a mile, long range hunting and for a few years I shot indoor 3 position small bore.
I’m a palma shooter. I’m not the best in the world, but I’m ok. I shoot at all of the HP ranges in MN and most of the ones in WI all summer long, as well as elsewhere around the country for larger matches. I don’t shoot f-class, but I know many F-class shooters in the midwest and all over and shoot with them at every match. Sorry, I have not heard of Bob Pastor. I’m sure he’s an excellent shooter to have won 149 first place plaques in F-class.
You’re the guy who rolled in stating that shooters not cleaning every 30-40 rounds were “being lazy”, and that this was the reason for their carbon problems. Most don’t have any carbon problems. They just have carbon (which naturally results from firing guns), which they remove using whatever method they prefer. Your way of cleaning every 30-40 rounds may be great when shooting steel from a bipod or when long range hunting, but it isn’t very practical at a HP/F-class match. Now that you’ve explained that you haven’t shot that kind of match, it’s understandable that you didn’t realize that.
And anyways, why are you letting 30 or 40 rounds of carbon build up in your barrels before cleaning? Why aren’t you putting in the work to get it out every 5 or 10 rounds?
Here knock yourself out.
Log into Facebook
Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com
I havent updated my webpage in close to 3 years. I dont update a lot of stuff as I need to get stuff built so posting every build aint happening. As food for thought please explain how you feel a comp rifle build is different than a hunting rifle?
Something wrong with a 7lbs rifle shooting under 1/2 MOA compared to one that weighs in the teens?
Oh and on the whole F class and PRS yes I know what goes on at those matches I have never shot one but I have watched a few and like I said I build rilfes for guys that shoot in them.
Agree, after a barrel clean my first string is also usually not quite as good as the second, the groups generally wider, you make a good point.
Outside the bigger events, I shoot local club matches, maybe 40-50 rounds each time, shooting every 2-3 weeks, so by the time I get up to 200 rounds it might be a couple months by which time I've got hard carbon streaks that need a bore soaking that I believe are due to the time delay in cleaning. So I clean after every match, 40 rounds or 200.
Always looking for a better way.
Why do cleaning threads always turn into pissing matches?
Because, it's that little part in your mind that stores that itty bitty way of thinking like the left, meaning you know what's best for others and you want them to know it.
I didn't see any comments about the effects of moisture and / or humidity on any testing. What works at 5000 feet in Idaho may not have the same results in Foley , Alabama. Also since CLR contains, I believe, phosphoric acid, it will react electrolytically with any two metals or disparate alloys in contact or proximity to one another. Exposure to one alloy alone may or not see any reaction.
Theres a mess of variables here that can change the results dramatically. Even perhaps the residues of powder modifiers left in the barrels as fouling. Things like acids could convert some of these trace compounds into something not benign.
Theres a mess of variables here that can change the results dramatically. Even perhaps the residues of powder modifiers left in the barrels as fouling. Things like acids could convert some of these trace compounds into something not benign.
There is a BIG difference between how competition rifles are shot and how hunting rifles are shot. Most of the rounds shot in a hunting rifle are for load development or practice. We are careful not to get the barrel hot and rarely shoot longer shot strings.
That is not the case with a competition rifle, at least an LR BR rifle. Most the of shots are fired in competition. The barrel gets very hot and shot strings are fired as fast as they can be single fed.
I think the way these two kinds of rifles are shot are a big part of the reason as to why they seem to foul differently.
I clean my LR BR rifles every 70-100 rounds. Typically after each match. It would be very hard to clean during a match and there is nothing to gain. There is no accuracy drop off to 100 rounds, and I am talking BR level accuracy. There is very little copper in the BR rifles, but carbon is the big issue.
I clean my hunting rifles every 30-40 rounds. Copper build up is a bigger issue with the hunting rifles and carbon doesn't seem to be as much of a problem. I also don't have the same accuracy and consistency demands for my hunting rifles as I do my LR BR rifles.
That is not the case with a competition rifle, at least an LR BR rifle. Most the of shots are fired in competition. The barrel gets very hot and shot strings are fired as fast as they can be single fed.
I think the way these two kinds of rifles are shot are a big part of the reason as to why they seem to foul differently.
I clean my LR BR rifles every 70-100 rounds. Typically after each match. It would be very hard to clean during a match and there is nothing to gain. There is no accuracy drop off to 100 rounds, and I am talking BR level accuracy. There is very little copper in the BR rifles, but carbon is the big issue.
I clean my hunting rifles every 30-40 rounds. Copper build up is a bigger issue with the hunting rifles and carbon doesn't seem to be as much of a problem. I also don't have the same accuracy and consistency demands for my hunting rifles as I do my LR BR rifles.
Last edited:
you know you gave me an idea. I wonder if piss would make a good cleaning agent. it kills grass rusts steel. has to work on measly carbonWhy do cleaning threads always turn into pissing matches?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
If you do a test and say it half assed worked there would be 100 try it toniteyou know you gave me an idea. I wonder if piss would make a good cleaning agent. it kills grass rusts steel. has to work on measly carbon
you know you gave me an idea. I wonder if piss would make a good cleaning agent. it kills grass rusts steel. has to work on measly carbon
Do you go in through the crown or camber?
No phosphoric acid, like your average cola, but it contains two milder organic acids.
Jim Borden
Site $$ Sponsor
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.