A smarter way to use a Honed Forster?

[Hohn]

I love my honed Forster dies. But I'm wondering if there's a smarter way to use them than what I have done so far.

I had my 223 die honed to .245. It gives the desired neck tension with all the brass I use and works great with or without the expander (not litigating that aspect here). I'm wondering if the smarter way is to have honed to the largest size they will do (.248) and use it like a body without the expander and consider it a "rough sizer" for the neck.

Then, having done most of the neck reduction in a nicely concentric Forster, you can final size the neck after annealing (or not) with a LCD or a bushing die if it's not enough tension. And in the unlikely event it's too much tension, you hit it with the mandrel die.

Since Lee offers custom LCD mandrel sizes for less than what most bushings can be had for, and the LCD is itself very modestly priced, I think you could end up with a superb sized brass with just two steps-- a coarse sizing and shoulder bump with the honed Forster, then set the final neck tension with the LCD using the mandrel of your preferred size.

This also keeps all of the neck errors on the OD because the final sizing is on a mandrel so the ID of the neck should be nice and round and consistent.

I know lots of folks are happy with the Redding body die and LCD approach. But I think replacing the body die with a honed Forster at max neck ID could improve that technique even more by asking the LCD to do less reduction.

Thoughts?

 

[Ranger188]

I have my Forster FL sizing die honed a thousandths or 2 smaller than
what I want. Then have a mandrel done to the size I want.
I would rather have my brass pushed out for final sizing.
2 steps like you.

 

[Uncle Ed]

The Forster website tells you to measure the neck of a loaded round and subtract .004 for your honed neck diameter. And use the Forsters expander to set the final inside neck diameter.

I have never seen an advantage to using a expander die or a Lee collet die to reduce neck runout vs using the Forster expander.

The Forster high mounted floating expander enters the case neck when it is held and centered in the neck of the die. Meaning the expander can not pull the neck off center and induce neck runout.

The point in having the dies neck honed is to reduce the amount the neck is worked during sizing.

So why size the case twice when you have the same or less neck runout by using the Forster die as designed.

 

[Uncle Ed]

As a side note the Redding bushing die FAQ tells you if your neck thickness varies .002 or more then select a bushing a few thousandths smaller and use the Redding expander to set the inside neck diameter.

The quality and uniformity of the case wall and neck thickness variations will affect any type of die you use.

Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)​

https://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/146-concentricity-problems

Concentricity Problems​

a.k.a Neck Runout With Bottleneck Cases

"We have conducted many tests over the years on the various factors contributing to concentricity problems with bottleneck cases. We have repeatedly found a definite correlation between the uniformity of the brass (or lack of it) and the resulting concentricity of the neck to the body of the case.

An interesting experiment also revealed that neck turning of brass that was intentionally sorted as non-uniform, showed little or no concentricity improvement when used in standard S.A.A.M.I. spec chambers. Conversely brass that was sorted and selected for uniformity remained uniform and concentric with or without a neck turning operation."

 

[Clark]

I had my 223 die honed to .245

you can final size the neck after annealing (or not) with a LCD ...

Thoughts?

My custom reamer is a 0.250" neck.
I had my Forster die honed to 0.245" in 2007, but it measures 0.246" with 0.001" increment pin gauges as go no go.
I complained [and maybe because of me] they later went to 0.0005" increment with their Sunnen work.

In 2013 I complained that I had to finish the Lee Collet neck dies and Lee started making them right.

 

[Hohn]

Ed, you posted previous versions of that post several times. It’s a good refresher.

My point is this: *IF* the LCD setting final neck tension is more desirable than using either the forster expander or a mandrel— compressing inward vs expanding out— THEN it would be desirable to minimize the degree to which the LCD must squeeze the neck down.

This approach also only sizes necks down, no re-expanding. That is absolutely less work on the neck than any process using over compression then expansion.

 

[fatelvis]

My custom reamer is a 0.250" neck.
I had my Forster die honed to 0.245" in 2007, but it measures 0.246" with 0.001" increment pin gauges as go no go.
I complained [and maybe because of me] they later went to 0.0005" increment with their Sunnen work.

In 2013 I complained that I had to finish the Lee Collet neck dies and Lee started making them right.

I have always noticed that Rough machining on my early Dies. I wasn't aware that they improved upon them. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I thought by the title id see a picture of one holding down a stack of papers instead of sitting in a drawer

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Ah now! Us back 40 cow pasture shooters like our Forster’s.

I thought by the title id see a picture of one holding down a stack of papers instead of sitting in a drawer

 

[AckleymanII]

My custom reamer is a 0.250" neck.
I had my Forster die honed to 0.245" in 2007, but it measures 0.246" with 0.001" increment pin gauges as go no go.
I complained [and maybe because of me] they later went to 0.0005" increment with their Sunnen work.

In 2013 I complained that I had to finish the Lee Collet neck dies and Lee started making them right.

perhaps the die is worn?

 

[Clark]

The old problem with Forster honing was dimensional. When an order for honing was placed with a dimension, was that +0.001 - 0.000" or +0.000 - 0.001?

My expectation, a smaller hole, was that opposite of what was delivered, a larger hole.

They resolved the complaints by getting orders in +/- 0.0005" increments.

My reloading die spreadsheet with necks measured, has 310 line items for 310 dies [reloading room packed to the ceiling].

I am a little old man who justs shoots ~ 3 deer per year. I am not wearing out dies.