204 Ruger cases won't fit even after FL sizing
- Thread starter ranger3
- Start date
Ok, I had lubed the brass with one shot to use in my Dillon 550, well I got sidetracked and and came back later. I then used my Rock Chucker after the brass had well dried. I have not reloaded any 204 for several years. I have now resized about 30-40 pics. I'll size some as you suggest and see how it goes. I think I'll call Redding on Monday and see if they want to look at the dies, I have thought my dies are part of the problem but don't know for sure.
Thanks again for all the help from all of you.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
Someone else had this problem a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure your problem may have to do with your expander ball. Take a case that you have sized and de-primed that won't fit the chamber as you describe. If there is excessive resistance when the expander ball enters the case (be sure to have a good inside chamfer on the case mouth), or excessive force when extracted, the neck gets tweaked out of whack. Remove your decap assembly from the sizing die and resize the case again - just as you did before. Attempt to rechamber the brass. If it chambers - your expander ball should be reduced in diameter (or simply resize all of your cases again without the expander ball). If the brass still won't rechamber after screwing your die down for full "cam-over" contact, either your brass trim length is too long or you have a die issue. A small-base die is usually not needed when the brass was originally fired in your chamber, though there are exceptions. The expander balls create more issues leading people to think they have a bad die than everything else combined it seems. Good luck.
Most likey moving the case further up in the die and crushing the shoulder forcing it to size the base.
Kittitas George
Gold $$ Contributor
Could it be the expander ball on the decapping pin is stretching the case as it exits the neck? I had the same problem, I don't remember what I did to correct it. I did have a case stick before it entered the chamber all the way, it could have been the base was not sized down far enough, although that was the gun it was fired in, a Cooper. I think I ran them through a Type S fill length die with out the expander ball, then ran them through the gun before reloading and also after reloading.
Well Redding reviewed the die and decided that the expander ball was fine. I have finally resorted to running the cases into the chamber after sizing and if they don't fit well then resizing a second time and that seems to take care of the issue. I have also found that oil works better than wax. One of my issues is that the ejector spring has enough force that it makes it difficult for the case to seat in the bolt. This adds to the problem. Some of my necks have grown to the extent of needing to be trimmed by 20 thousands. No signs of PRESSURE on the cases.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
Again, If your cases chamber after sizing WITHOUT the expander ball - that is telling you the expander ball is not working with your brass, despite being "within specs" by the manufacturer. Your shoulders may also be getting pushed back a bit too much - which causes the length growth you cite. In a bolt gun, your shoulders should only be pushed back about .03" to .005" MAX. To determine what your "baseline" base-to-shoulder" measurement should be (using a Hornady or other base-to-shoulder measuring device), I'd suggest you measure ALL of your fired cases (before sizing or de-priming) and pick out the two or three cases with the LONGEST shoulder measurements. They should all be about the same. Check to see that the primers are flush with the bottom of the case or you have a false reasing that will have you pushing the shoulders WAY too far back. The measurements of these cases can be your baseline until after you fire them again - if any newly fired cases measure longer than your baseline, the longer measurement will become the new baseline. This is important because if you measure the shoulder length on just a few cases - you might not be getting the longest one - meaning you are setting the cases back when they are not fully blown out. Be sure when setting your decap assembly in the die, the decap pin should usually not protrude ANY MORE THAN NECESSARY to allow the primer to be fully ejected. Frankly, I doubt that both of your shell-holders are defective in machining. If those cases loaded after sizing without your expander ball, take the de-cap assembly and chuck it into a drill and spin while applying a diamond fine file to the expander ball. Take off small amount and keep measuring till you have removed about .002". Try the die again. If still doesn't provide ammo that loads, take another .001" off till it does. I have never had to take off more than .003" to .004" to create an expander that will take out dings, yet not overly stress the neck when entering and exiting. The idea is to get your expander to have a fit light enough that it glides in and out of a sized case with light friction. You will end up with much more accurate ammo by doing this even if not needed to solve your problem. Good luck!
Been there and done that. My thinking about this is:
Using an ordinary caliper it will be noticed that when the caliper is opened up the end of the sliding bar extends beyond the end of the caliper body - this may be used to measure depths. Placing the end of the caliper against the top of the shell holder and opening it up, the sliding bar will extend down into the shell holder where the cartridge base rests. Then the depth or distance between the top of the shell holder and where the brass contacts may be measured. Calipers are commonly good for .001 - .002 inches.
Shell holders are really hard and take some effort to grind down. I use a diamond wheel in my Dremel and finish the job by polishing the surface with wet/dry black sandpaper ending with 400 grit.
It is possible to jam the top of the shell holder hard against the die and still have inadequate headspace for chambering - with brass length trimmed to specs. A high shell holder will prevent complete F/L sizing.
Subjecting a cartridge to 56K psi or so will make it conform to the inside of the chamber and if the chamber has a "sharp shoulder" the fired brass will also have a sharp shoulder.
I also lube the insides of necks with 3 in One lock lube (graphite) to facilitate passage of the expander ball thru the neck. Free hand grinding the expander ball might result in a not round expander ball. Dragging the brass over an expander ball should not stretch the body of the brass but might cause brass run-out.
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Are the Redding’s not taller though by a couple thousand each?
The Redding Competition Shellholders increase in height by 0.002 to 0.010 above their standard SH.
https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/35-competition-shellholder-sets
TheOtherZilla
Pull my finger
FWIW I am using a Redding 204 Die set. And a #10 RCBS shell holder. I ran the die down on the shell holder and then another 1/8" as per instructions. No issues here. I have had this die set for over ten years.
mensajd
Quod Erat Demonstrandum
The competition shell holder set permits you to do incrementally LESS sizing. In the instructions that accompany the set, it states that "[t]he number stamped on top of the Redding Competition Shellholder indicates its increased shell seat depth [emphasis added] over this standard, and thus the amount it will decrease case to chamber headspace (through less shoulder bump)."
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