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Concerning the "Carpet Rule" and CIHPRS matches

If an NRA rule is "Subjective" it should be pointed out to the NRA and left up to them to fix. Not left up to a match director to interpret.
 
I don't understand why people who don't even compete in F-TR are compelled to comment on this thread. We don't stick our noses in your business, you should show us the same respect.
 
Since I don't have a gun in this fight and have never competed (and the more I read about competitions the less I'm interested) what does USHPSA even stand for? I've heard of the USPSA and PRS, and IBS, and IDPA, and so on and so forth. What I want to know is how high do you cut your skirts because it seems like all of these organizations and their respective members are constantly having someone blow their skirts up. :p:D
 
Nationals aside, how does an 'average joe' NRA member/FTR competitor get involved with rule creation/modification, or get their perspectives heard by the rules committee? Is that even a possibility, or is it limited to a certain subset of people (MDs or the like)?

The only language I could find in the rule book states the following, but doesn't really outline a clear path.

"Recommendations for rule changes may be forwarded to the High Power Rifle Committee in care of the National Rifle Association"

Thanks in advance!
-Mike
 
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Well I don't shoot F-class, but have friends that do. I have
seen the divisions in most groups as years go by, and rules
are usually the culprit. Too many times, a board group makes
a change without any real input from the shooters themselves.
Been there with the various pistol leagues such as growth
from PPC to IPSC, USPSA (the US IPSC key holder), then the
rift that formed into IDPA. Match's went from 45 shooters on
a good weekend to only 15, then match cancellations do to
lack of participation.....No, I'm not an F-class shooter, but boy,
no matter what organization, the shooters themselves need to
be the biggest part of any issued rules changes.

So explain it to me, what the carpet problem is all about ?? too
thick, too thin, too wide, too long, depth of mat, material, color,
stiffness, the use of any carpet is......yadda yadda !!
 
Medic505 said:
I don't understand why people who don't even compete in F-TR are compelled to comment on this thread. We don't stick our noses in your business, you should show us the same respect.
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It`s a Land of the Free,Home of the Brave, 1st amendment thing. Jeff
 
I saw some of this stuff last night, for the first time, still dont know what the heck its about, but call me crazy, but isnt it a bit hilarious if you have to have a "carpet rule??" No clue what that is, or what it means, but sounds hilarious to me. Either way, some of yall need to lighten up a bit....its shooting, stuff we do for FUN. When its no longer fun, a lot of us arent going to do it any longer.
 
This is a side comment, but all the teams should be regarded as level with each other and all individual’s needs level with all teams. Each of the teams going to South Africa will be representing their respective countries as well as their teams. Little stated fact, the “US” Team may be named such, but because they chose that name; it is not a mantle assigned by some official higher sanctioning body. Nothing prevents another team from adopting the same name.

I understand that all the TR traveling teams will be more limited in their front set up than is/was permitted here, and I have to wonder if that is the driving force behind rule changes this year. It wasn’t described that way, but regardless whether so or not, I sure wouldn’t want to have adopt the 2017 Connaught rules of “BC limits” in “Open”, pair firing, 900 meter targets, or the V bull 5 point target just because once every four years some shooters here may choose to travel abroad, and have to use them.
 
Dgd6mm said:
How is the NRA carpet rule stated now?
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Of course there is no 'carpet rule' as such.
There is one support rule that explicitly says we can use pieces of carpet under the bipod in addition to other things.
There is another support rule that says we can't 'provide tracking'.

Somehow things have been pushed to the point of having long thin 'feet' in thick, shag carpeting that virtually can't move sideways with this still being considered not providing tracking.
 
NRA current - It is not permitted to provide tracks for the guidance of bipod feet.

ICFRA - It is not permitted to provide tracks for the guidance of bipod feet nor allow the feet to create them.

NRA proposed/imminent - It is not permitted to provide tracks for the guidance of bipod feet, nor may the combination of bipod feet and/or pad materials create a track. The pad surface should be smooth enough to allow the bipod to be moved in any direction without having to lift the rifle or move the pad that the bipod is on.
 
Neither the ICFRA text or the new NRA text are meant to change or add to the base no tracks clause.
They only clarify the original intent to ban tracking.
 
Heman said:
Mathew,

You took this initial post way to personal. As Bob said this is just to let people know we are not going to enforce the "Carpet Rule."

Back to the rule the intent is so the F-T/R guns dont track like an Open gun. But the rule does not specify how much force needs to be applied and where, like the SR trigger weight rule. It is very abstract and subjective, therefore it is a bad rule. How much side force do I need to apply 1lb, 3lb, 7lb? Where do I apply the force?

It was also said that rules are being made to better align US shooting rules with ICFRA, that is funny because that is where I was told the initial uproar came from. Again making a rule for the minority to affect the majority, not a good rule.

I understand you are young and the glimmer of the NRA is still sparkling in your eyes much as it did for me when I started shooting and running the matches at our club. I also understand your loyalty to Mid because he helped get you shooting and given his position probably helped you get you started in your career. I also understand your loyalty to the NRA because of your position at Arizona Fish and Wildlife. One of my very good friends retired last year was #2 at Indiana DNR he too use to think highly of the NRA in his youth as you do now. We all were there at one time, but with age and wisdom both myself and Mark both saw the NRA for what it really is.

I did try to help the NRA, met with Col. Gardner on behalf of Dennis Willing there at the base before the move. Drove over several times to check stuff out for Dennis on my dime. Played front man for Dennis online to help the NRA and then got drug through the mud. I offered 20 electronic targets (our 12, plus 8 more I could secure from SMT) for the 2018 Nationals, free, the NRA said no because they were afraid. The first year we let the NRA use some of our club stuff, free, they never reimbursed us, even though they said they would. Nobody is smearing anyone you are the one that made this all personal. ISRPA offered to help do stuff because they could do it better than the NRA, but the NRA didn't take them up on the help either. Sitting back watching the NRA nationals die, like the sinking Titanic as they rearrange deck chairs isn't fun, but they had their chance and have blown it.

There are people in the NRA who are "trying" to make stuff better, but they've been trying to make it better for 20-30 years and it has gone downhill. This is no different than career politicians in Washington who are there 20,30, or 40 years and nothing gets done it just gets worse. You can keep saying you are trying but if it doesn't improve it isn't working. That is the central problem there needs to be new blood in the NRA.

There is corruption not only in ILA but also competitions. In fall of 2016 one of the executives was fired because he was siphoning of money from competitions for his own pet projects. Shall we mention all the money that use to be there for the Palma team, but then mysteriously disappeared? How about all the money that comes in for the matches at Atterbury, Ranges cost $110 a day in 2017, upped to 250-ish a day in 2018, way cheaper than Perry. Housing was $38 a night for deluxe rooms, cheaper than Perry, not paying for the boats. So where does the money go? Prices are the same as Perry but the NRAs costs have decreased substantially. Then they have the nerve to ask for donations for electronic targets, this is why people are fed up with the NRA.

The NRA is a huge bureaucracy that is completely inefficient. Rules are proposed, you never hear back from committee, they meet in October-ish. Then what they decide may or may not get approved by directors and then sent to the big meeting for approval in Jan/Feb, and then doesn't get released to public till May. So I ask you, when did the HP Committee provide guidance? Bergers is after the HP Committee meeting. There was nothing going on in competitions since April. Cole is the only one there, they are taking money but to my knowledge the only person working yet is Cole, don't think they are inputting scores yet. So when did they meet to provide this guidance? If it was after the general meeting where the HP Committee approves stuff for the board then it needs to go to the next cycle. Meaning the meeting in October of 2020. If you are talking an interpretation? Well then they didn't make a new rule but rather gave their interpretation and the rule was written by the match director and being enforced is being done by him. You can not have an official new rule unless it goes through the process. The reason I say all of this is I complained about the process many times, why we got fed up with the NRA. Now a match director can add stuff so long as it is in the bulletin that isn't an official NRA rule. But then the Match director is adding/creating a rule on his own.
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First off Shawn, way to show your true colors to come out and insult me. You don't know me, what I have done, how I got my job, my personal thoughts on the NRA, or my relationship with Mid. Yet to make yourself look big and important you have to insult me. Then you have to go further to create rumors regarding the whole issue at hand. You don't know what has happened or why it has even has happened in the manner that it has.

Well done on representing the CIHPRS. I am sure the membership is proud.
 
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