Educate me on die rings.

[pertnear]

First, I'm not being critical at all & I definitely can't say anything about something I haven't tried. I just don't understand the "snap-in" die ring phenomena. I've been reloading for a long time & I have a small fortune in RCBS dies. I hated their original knurled die rings with a lead bead & set-screw to lock them. They just seemed to beg you to use pliers to tighten them in the press. Once you had them set, heaven help you to break the smashed bead loose & set it a little different. Very ugly situation. Eventually I replaced all of my rings with Hornady split rings with a set screw that compresses the ring circumference. I also bought a wrench that fits the squared off ring & I can tighten the die down with about 10 in-lb's estimated hand pressure.

I was screwing in a die & tightening with a wrench & I guess it took less than 10 sec. I guess I could shave 8 sec off that with a snap-in. The new LNL & Co-Ax style snap in is all the rage, I guess. I get that a very tight die does not allow the case to self-center. I use a MEC Marksman with floating shell holder to help with that. But the floating shell holder only self adjusts in the horizontal plane. I know Lee had a rubber "O" ring on their rings & I guess that was their idea of enhanced self-alignment(?) Do the new snap-in's allow for "floating" to self adjust to the case? I've heard shooters say I bought such 'n' such press just to get the quick die change feature. I'm just wondering....

 

[piie]

Everytime I can get hold of the Lee rubber O-ring die rings, I snatch them up for my Redding and RCBS dies - I use two T7's with 4 heads, so my dies will stay pretty static, but as you say, *if* you need to ever move or adjust a die, then the types like Redding and RCBS std rings with the hex plug through the threads, make it almost impossible. With the rubber o-ring rings from Lee, you are secure, yet able to loosen and adjust easily. How well they align - have no idea, but I still get good results from my dies...

 

[jepp2]

I just don't understand the "snap-in" die ring phenomena.

Me either.

I load all my handgun ammo on Dillon 550's. I load all my centerfire rifle on a single stage press, I screw the die in and take it out when I am done. I shoot 5-7K rounds during my annual prairie dog hunt (a month). Some years I fire 12K rounds of centerfire rifle total. Probably more than 98% of forum readers. Doesn't make me better, just maybe unique.

But you asked about die lock rings. I load for multiple rifle with some of my dies. So frequent adjustment is a way of life to control the sizing case head to datum that I want. I also hate the knurled die rings with the set screw. Minor adjustments are nearly impossible. I also tried and discarded the Hornady/Forster split ring style on my Redding press. If I tightened the clamp screw with the ring in firm contact with the top of the press, it basically locks it in place. I can back the die off slightly, tighten the clamp screw and avoid this. However I find when processing many rounds, the die has a tendency to loosen and back off if I don't check it every 25 rounds or so.

What I use now on all my sizing dies is an O-ring under the knurled die ring that is left loose. I was experimenting with the O-ring to see if it reduced my TIR during sizing. It didn't, but I found it made for easy adjustments (as small as 0.001") and the die never came loose or moved - ever. Just like the Lee lock ring (almost) that I hated at first. Might not work for everyone, but works best for me. I put a reference mark on the die that I align with a point on the reducing bushing on top the press. But I usually start sizing with it slightly higher and adjust my way in.

 

[BoydAllen]

A concentricity gauge will allow you to do all the experiments that you can think of, with one exception. Just for the heck of it, on a friend's lathe, we checked a bunch of split lock rings to see how square their faces were to their threads after tightening. After that he fixed some for both of us. Does it help on target? Like a lot of small things, it is hard to tell for sure. Can you figure out how we checked them?

What sort of dies are you using?

 

[pertnear]

..... I also tried and discarded the Hornady/Forster split ring style on my Redding press. If I tightened the clamp screw with the ring in firm contact with the top of the press, it basically locks it in place. I can back the die off slightly, tighten the clamp screw and avoid this. However I find when processing many rounds, the die has a tendency to loosen and back off if I don't check it every 25 rounds or so....
View attachment 1193389

I've discovered this problem also. If you tighten the split ring with die set tight the way you want it will lock in place. You have to back the die off slightly then tighten & then re-tighten & repeat until you get it exactly how you want.

I have about 40 die sets almost all RCBS. I have a few Redding. I have various odd dies like Lee collets & FCD.

Thanks for the good info guys.

 

[Bill Norris]

pertnear's question above. Do the new snap-in's allow for "floating" to self adjust to the case ? I've heard shooters say I bought such 'n' such press just to get the quick die change feature. I'm just wondering....

There is an O-ring beneath the flange on the Lee "Breech Lock" adapter. See Pic below.

 

[HTSmith]

I can only speak to the Forster CoAx, but yes the design does allow the die to float. The dies don't snap in per se, they just fit into a slot and the instructions say to loosen the set screw to give some "slop". I put Forster rings on all my non Forster dies (got a bunch cheap on Ebay) because they fit the slot nicely, but I'm not sure it was necessary.

So it is a very convenient set up. Does it load straighter ammo? Theoretically it should but I don't have a means to measure. Hope this helped some.

 

[farmerjohn]

A concentricity gauge will allow you to do all the experiments that you can think of, with one exception. Just for the heck of it, on a friend's lathe, we checked a bunch of split lock rings to see how square their faces were to their threads after tightening. After that he fixed some for both of us. Does it help on target? Like a lot of small things, it is hard to tell for sure. Can you figure out how we checked them?

What sort of dies are you using?

Icut a light bevel on the inside what was to be the "bottom" of the adjustment ring and chucked the sizing die up in a 4 jaw Chuck, indicated true from the inside of the sizing die, screwed the ring onto the die and tightened it up. Moved in to the bevel and took a skim cut out, and it was off a little.....
John

 

[pertnear]

A concentricity gauge will allow you to do all the experiments that you can think of, with one exception. Just for the heck of it, on a friend's lathe, we checked a bunch of split lock rings to see how square their faces were to their threads after tightening. After that he fixed some for both of us. Does it help on target? Like a lot of small things, it is hard to tell for sure. Can you figure out how we checked them?

I'm guessing that you mounted a steel rod, turned it true, cut threads & left a shoulder to butt ring up against. Install ring. Then a light truing pass to square the face, then flip & repeat. (?)

 

[BoydAllen]

I'm guessing that you mounted a steel rod, turned it true, cut threads & left a shoulder to butt ring up against. Install ring. Then a light truing pass to square the face, then flip & repeat. (?)

Not quite...we tightened the ring on the threads, letting it align itself to them and nothing else. It was near the end, and after checking we took a cut, flipped it and repeated.