Fire Forming .280 Rem to .280AI

[Hayudog]

Need to make sure I'm going down the road correctly. I'll try not to get long winded.

I'm fire forming new Winchester .280 Rem brass, the nickel plated stuff, to .280 AI.
Initially I tried to do the "Cream Wheat" method, but I ruined the first 3 cases trying to expand the .280 to .30 to resize back to .280 , so I could leave a false shoulder to hold the case in the chamber. I'll try again another day.

So, I loaded up 5 .280 light loads. Per Nosler specs, "use a fast powder", " seat the bullet "well" into the rifling so that it makes good contact with the lands when the cartridge is chambered". I seated .010 into the lands.

I loaded a starting load of H4895 and 160 gr. Speer bullet. Shot the 5.
All 5 the case length after shooting was .020 shorter than originally.
Is this normal?


Thanks in advance.
Doug

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A proper ackley needs to have the 280rem brass bumped back to even chamber. The ackley headspace should be around .004 shorter than the rem chamber so thats where your crush comes from. No need nor any room for a false shoulder- you have other issues going on

 

[std7mag]

Doug,
Aren't we discussing this on another forum?

If the headspace is set right with the AI chamber, then there should be a slight "crush" at the neck/shoulder junction.
Thus negating the need to seat the bullet into the lands.
Also meaning SAAMI spec factory ammo can safely be fired from the same gun.

Use a sharpie to color around the neck/shoulder junction of the standard case.
Chamber (don't pull the trigger). Remove and check for contact at the neck/shoulder junction.

Load standard cartridge as normal, go to the range and have fun checking your groups sizes, etc...

Accuracy should still be there with standard cartridges, just be aware of POI shift, especially at further distances.

 

[Hayudog]

I'll check to see if I'm getting marks on the shoulder...I'll report back.

 

[El Matador]

It's totally normal for the brass to end up shorter after fire forming. When the shoulder gets blown out it tends to pull some of the brass down from the neck.

I also agree with the others, if your chamber is set up properly there shouldn't be a need for a false shoulder or jamming into the lands. If you use other brass such as 30-06, 25-06, or 270 Win you'll need to do it because those have a the shoulder a bit further back compared to the 280.

 

[Hayudog]

I'll check to see if I'm getting marks on the shoulder...I'll report back.

No marks on the shoulder of my new .280 Rem case when I chamber it.

 

[Hayudog]

This is the procedure on the Nosler site. This is where they said to have the bullet contact the lands.

https://www.nosler.com/280-ackley-improved

 

[Hayudog]

The false shoulder part was when I tried to use the " bullet less " method to fire form. Cream Wheat method. Creating the false shoulder was to hold the .280 Rem case so the firing pin strike didn't drive the cartridge forward. The reduced load of pistol powder doesn't create the fast expansion of the case to help hold the cartridge in place when fired. Again, I've abandoned that for now.

 

[BCBRAD]

Nickel plated brass will not last as long as the regular brass. This is because there is no real way to anneal the case, the brass softens and the nickel will hardened when trying to anneal. Get rid of the nickel plated brass.

For 280ai I use 30-06 Lapua brass which is annealed by me. The case is run into a standard 280 size die to create a false shoulder, experimentation will leave a false shoulder with a slight crush fit when chambered.

Load with a mid range powder charge and reasonably priced bullet.
The case will come out shorter than the spec for a 280ai, this has caused no issues as whatever the length is is the new case length for you.

Set your 280ai size die up to bump shoulder back 1 or 2 thousands.

A carbon ring most likely will develop but semi regular cleaning will prevent any detrimental effects of this, doesn't hurt accuracy either.

The COW method is a poor way to save money as cases are never fully formed.

I have had some very accurate fire forming loads and are very good for practice in different positions, so not a waste.

 

[Hayudog]

Nickel plated brass will not last as long as the regular brass. This is because there is no real way to anneal the case, the brass softens and the nickel will hardened when trying to anneal. Get rid of the nickel plated brass.

For 280ai I use 30-06 Lapua brass which is annealed by me. The case is run into a standard 280 size die to create a false shoulder, experimentation will leave a false shoulder with a slight crush fit when chambered.

Load with a mid range powder charge and reasonably priced bullet.
The case will come out shorter than the spec for a 280ai, this has caused no issues as whatever the length is is the new case length for you.

Set your 280ai size die up to bump shoulder back 1 or 2 thousands.

A carbon ring most likely will develop but semi regular cleaning will prevent any detrimental effects of this, doesn't hurt accuracy either.

The COW method is a poor way to save money as cases are never fully formed.

I have had some very accurate fire forming loads and are very good for practice in different positions, so not a waste.

Thanks for the reply. The flashy brass was the only .280 brass I could find locally. My .222 and 22-250 brass is all Lapua, which has been very consistent. Thanks for the insight on the 30-06 way. It's a hunting rifle, so it will see lots less volume than the dog guns. May just buy Nosler brass and be done.

 

[nmkid]

Keep looking for 280 brass it's way easier.

 

[SeabeeKen]

Need to make sure I'm going down the road correctly. I'll try not to get long winded.

I'm fire forming new Winchester .280 Rem brass, the nickel plated stuff, to .280 AI.
Initially I tried to do the "Cream Wheat" method, but I ruined the first 3 cases trying to expand the .280 to .30 to resize back to .280 , so I could leave a false shoulder to hold the case in the chamber. I'll try again another day.

So, I loaded up 5 .280 light loads. Per Nosler specs, "use a fast powder", " seat the bullet "well" into the rifling so that it makes good contact with the lands when the cartridge is chambered". I seated .010 into the lands.

I loaded a starting load of H4895 and 160 gr. Speer bullet. Shot the 5.
All 5 the case length after shooting was .020 shorter than originally.
Is this normal?


Thanks in advance.
Doug

It is normal for the brass to get shorter about that amount. I form a number of different ackley cases including 280ai and they do it. As they brass expands to the sides and the shoulder edge moves forward the brass moves from the neck end back toward the body (path of least resistance). It sounds like your rifle is chambered fine. Since the case is jammed to the bolt, the brass to fill the expansion cant flow forward and moves from the neck backward. This is a good thing since it keeps cases from separating. Hope this helps.

 

[AckleymanII]

I form 280 AI from Lapua 30/06 brass, 14+g of bulleye and cream of wheat, 95% formed when done.

Set headspace when necking down from 30 caliber.

Then a clean up neck turn.

 

[gman47564]

Grafs has 280ai peterson brass on the shelf now .. nosler i think makes it also.. as well as hornady.. i just built one as well last week and will use brass thats ready to load..