Dreaded donuts issue .223

[Packrat1947]

I’m running into the dreaded ‘doughnut” issue with my .223 cases. What inside reamer setup are you using?


Thanks for any help.

 

[243winxb]

Outside neck turn the brass.

 

[Packrat1947]

Back in the '80s and 90s, both Wilson and Lee had dies/reamers for this operation. I was wondering if a company still offered them. These attack the donut without trying to force material to the outside. That never works satisfactorily.

 

[jimmymac]

Does your bullet contact the doughnut? If it doesn’t, you don’t have a problem.

 

[243winxb]

Forester makes neck reamers. https://www.forsterproducts.com/pro...se-conditioning-tools/case-neck/neck-reamers/

The Lee held the neck in the die while reaming. I had 30-06 & 243 Win. Target model loaders.

 

[AlNyhus]

I’m running into the dreaded ‘doughnut” issue with my .223 cases. What inside reamer setup are you using? Thanks for any help.

-Donut removal should be done on fired but unsized cases only.
-You do not want to touch any part of the neck except the donut.
-Measure the fired neck I.D. precisely. Pin gauges work great.
-Order a cutter .001-.002 under what the inside neck measures.
-You need a way to perfectly guide the cutter down the neck.

Of all the commercially available setups out there, the L.E. Wilson setup is the best, hands down. Be aware that their standard reamers are about .002 over the standard bullet diameter. They will do cutters in .0005 (half thou.) increments.

You can get ahead of the donuts by how you prep/size brass before the first firing. From then on, it's a matter of managing them in your individual gun.

And donuts do affect accuracy.

I'd add this...if you don't invest in a setup to precisely remove the donut w/o touching the inside of the necks in the process, you're better off not going there at all. Dinging up the inside of the necks on the way down to fix the donut will cause more woes than leaving things alone.

Hope this helps. -Al

 

[Pawnee Bill]

I’m running into the dreaded ‘doughnut” issue with my .223 cases. What inside reamer setup are you using?
View attachment 1174556

Thanks for any help.

Are you using bushing type sizing dies?

 

[Packrat1947]

Thank you Alnyhus and 243WinXB,

Finally, some people who know about, and have reasonable suggestions. I’m going to contact Forster as I have their trimming tool and other goodies – from the '70s.

It seems that most shooters are clueless as to the specific issue. Maybe they are young people who only repeat internet chatter – without doing any real thinking. They should at least think for a day or two before putting their hands near a keyboard.

Precision Shooting Magazine used to have articles as to why outside neck turning is not a solution. I've had an outside turner since 1978, so I know all about outside turning. I used to shoot "tight neck" cartridges in NRA Long Range (1000 yd.) and varmint hunting. Maybe this is foreign to some people.

The Lee tool is extremely hard to find in .223. Other calibers abound though.

Cheers, Ron N.

 

[jimmymac]

Thank you Alnyhus and 243WinXB,

It seems that most shooters are clueless as to the specific issue. Maybe they are young people who only repeat internet chatter – without doing any real thinking. They should at least think for a day or two before putting their hands near a keyboard.

Precision Shooting Magazine used to have articles as to why outside neck turning is not a solution. I've had an outside turner since 1978, so I know all about outside turning. I used to shoot "tight neck" cartridges in NRA Long Range (1000 yd.) and varmint hunting. Maybe this is foreign to some people.

Cheers, Ron N.

I can only assume you are talking about me or Pawnee Bill here since we are the only other two guys to chime in on your thread. I was quite sincere when I stated what I stated because I believe that to be true. That’s my opinion based on my own experiences, not what I read on the internet.

I run tight neck chambers that require neck turned brass.

Al has a lot more experience than me, but I’ve seen no difference on my targets whether my brass has donuts or not. While I don’t have the hardware that Al does, I do have enough experience and time behind a trigger to form my own opinion on whether or not donuts affect accuracy. In my opinion they don’t matter as long as my bullets are not in contact with the donut. If you think you can shoot the difference, then power to you.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I have removed them from 223, I full length resize then push a mandrel into the neck, this will allow a -.2220 pin gauge to fit through the neck stopping at the doughnut. I then use a .2220 chucking reamer by hand to cut out the doughnut.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Use a proper sized mandrel, push the donut to the outside, then turn it off if needed.
Better yet, use a shorter/lighter bullet and seat it just above the donut.

 

[searcher]

I was wondering if a company still offered them.

Wilson still does, I believe.

 

[InkedIan]

I've been turning necks for my 22 creed and even after using the expander mandrel I still get a slight donut at the bottom of the neck on the inside. Luckily I bought the k&m cutting carbide turning mandrel. I definitely recommend the k&m neck turner.

 

[JSH]

When this comes up for me, I roll them to the out side, take a skim cut just past the neck-shoulder junction problem solved.

I used reamers once, got the donut completely out,and ended up with a bunch of scrap brass.

My angle on it, if you ream you need thick necks to begin with to get the donut out. Then you still need to turn the outside to get things back on line with the true center of the case. And if you don’t turn to the shoulder some you can still get a donut.

There is a thread around here some place on this very subject.

 

[AlNyhus]

I have removed them from 223, I full length resize then push a mandrel into the neck, this will allow a -.2220 pin gauge to fit through the neck stopping at the doughnut. I then use a .2220 chucking reamer by hand to cut out the doughnut.

An excellent example of using a pin gauge to determine the correct reamer needed.

Chucking reamers work well, provided the leading edge draft angle is sufficient and you have a way to support the reamer as it's in the neck. I don't size the case before removing donuts....a fired case being the perfect template of that particular chamber.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[Packrat1947]

I've been turning necks for my 22 creed and even after using the expander mandrel I still get a slight donut at the bottom of the neck on the inside. Luckily I bought the k&m cutting carbide turning mandrel. I definitely recommend the k&m neck turner.
View attachment 1174944

I was looking at that last night. Anything by K&M is useful and quality. I have their primer tools.