free recoil or hard hold.

[bozo699]

You guys do realize this thread is several years old right?.....with that being said I shoot my br rifles free recoil like there designed to do. All other rifles including hunting rifles I shoot off bipod and pretty much the rifle will tell you how it wants to be held just like it told you what powder, bullets, primers etc.etc.etc
All you have to do is listen ......
Wayne

 

[Vinootz]

Yeah nearly all my rifles are heavy recoiling hunting rifles and they all told me I need a hard hold to get tight groups. I just can’t seem to do well with free recoil. One time I shot a sub MOA group(3/4”) at 200 yards by just pulling the rifle in with my trigger hand. So even that didn’t seem to be free recoil. And it was a custom built .308 tactical rifle I rented. Any way, did I mention I hold the fore end firmly also? Maybe it’s the 20 - 35 ft.lbs of recoil energy of my various rifles that require I hold firm with two hands. And I mostly shoot offhand. But when checking my zero, or developing loads, or verifying trajectories off the bench, I still hold firm. Who knows, maybe I got to shoot lighter recoiling rifles. And a lot more practice lol. Hey, I’ll have to live with what gets me sub MOA for now. Also I only use a front sand bag- no rear support. For now it’s all that works for me.

 

[urbanrifleman]

The best long range shooter in the world as far as I am concerned is David Tubb, and he has never shot free recoil with anything.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I have been holding my 6BR and 6.5x47L when shooting as I sometimes make small wind changes before pulling the trigger. I am about to venture into Short Range, Benchrest, where I have been told, with the 6PPC free recoil is probably more common. I will just have to see as I get some experience.

Bob

I shoot free recoil, but did not start out doing it. I figure it took me the first season to get it down mostly correct. Don.t expect to shoot a dozen groups and have it figured out. Like everything else it takes a commitment to practice and learn.

 

[searcher]

David Tubb, and he has never shot free recoil with anything.

Free-recoil shooting is the norm in benchrest, short range anyway. David Tubb doesn't shoot free recoil because he is shooting an entirely different discipline. Hard to shoot free recoil from a sling laying prone. Even in those rifles designed for free-recoil, moving from one with a different level of recoil can take adjustment. Like 6PPC to a 30 BR. Took a while to get used to the scope bumping into my safely glasses.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Free-recoil shooting is the norm in benchrest, short range anyway. David Tubb doesn't shoot free recoil because he is shooting an entirely different discipline. Hard to shoot free recoil from a sling laying prone. Even in those rifles designed for free-recoil, moving from one with a different level of recoil can take adjustment. Like 6PPC to a 30 BR. Took a while to get used to the scope bumping into my safely glasses.

David shoots ELR hard hold also.

Benchrest is a tiny, tiny part of shooting.

 

[mr45man]

He was saying that no matter how hard it bounces around the bullet has left the barrel long before the Rifle starts to recoil. So i figured i would give my 7.5lb 338 win

Recoil begins with bullet movement, no way to get around that.

 

[INTJ]

David shoots ELR hard hold also.

Benchrest is a tiny, tiny part of shooting.

Benchrest, whether LR or SR, is the shooting discipline that requires THE most precision and accuracy, period. If you hard hold a BR rifle you WILL finish at the bottom.

 

[Hohn]

David shoots ELR hard hold also.

Benchrest is a tiny, tiny part of shooting.

Well, hard hold is pretty innocuous in a rifle of that weight. Same for Heavy BR. When the rifles are 30-50#, the contribution of the hard hold is minimal. But if you are shooting a lighter rifle with more recoil, the hard hold can absolutely cause irregularity in your groups. The shooter is now part of the recoiling system.

It may be that the shooter can be a *consistent* part of that system, and thus reduce contributed error. But removing the error contribution entirely is absolutely preferable.

 

[INTJ]

I free recoil BR rifles (17 lb Light Guns).

For milder recoiling rifles off the bench, like .270 to .375 H&H level in sporter weight, I have light to med hold but I do hang on the the fore end to keep it from flying out of the rest. For heavier recoiling rifles I hold them firmly into my shoulder and firmly down on the rest.

For me it's simple, the more a hunting rifle moves when it's being shot, the harder I hold it.

 

[bozo699]

I free recoil BR rifles (17 lb Light Guns).

For milder recoiling rifles off the bench, like .270 to .375 H&H level in sporter weight, I have light to med hold but I do hang on the the fore end to keep it from flying out of the rest. For heavier recoiling rifles I hold them firmly into my shoulder and firmly down on the rest.

For me it's simple, the more a hunting rifle moves when it's being shot, the harder I hold it.

I let my 17 and heavy which doesn’t weigh much more free recoil but we have a third weight in our club that’s just within our club and that a 11 lb class and even a 6 brx or dasher jumps around you have to hold it some
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

I let my 17 and heavy which doesn’t weigh much more free recoil but we have a third weight in our club that’s just within our club and that a 11 lb class and even a 6 brx or dasher jumps around you have to hold it some
Wayne

Does the 11 lb gun have a 3 or 4" wide flat fore end?

 

[bozo699]

Does the 11 lb gun have a 3 or 4" wide flat fore end?

You know I can’t remember, I think it’s oddball like in between I’ll measure it tomorrow. For some reason I can’t even remember the make the action is a three lug Bat Krieger barrel chambered in 6brx
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

You know I can’t remember, I think it’s oddball like in between I’ll measure it tomorrow. For some reason I can’t even remember the make the action is a three lug Bat Krieger barrel chambered in 6brx
Wayne

If it has the wide flat for end then I think it should be able to be setup to free recoil. My 17 lb 300 WSM moves back about three times as much as my 6 BRA but the barrel doesn't jump. Then again those two guns are nose heavy which helps. You may not be able to get an 11 lb bun nose heavy enough.

 

[JASmith]

One can go to Ammoguide.com and get estimates of recoil through the Velocity Estimator tool.

Here's what it yields for the 180 gr Hornady Superformance round in the OP's 300 Win Mag in an 8 lb rifle:

The free recoil energy is about 35 ft-lb (Impressive but doesn't answer the question)

The free recoil velocity is about 17 ft/sec

That is equivalent to dropping that 8lb rifle from a height of FOUR feet onto your shoulder (do you want to try that?)

Last, but not least, that rifle, when loosely, held gains its velocity within n 1/8 of an inch!

So, for me, that rifle will be tightly held even if better accuracy can be had with free recoil.

(The human factor suggests tight hold will be more accurate because the flinch factor is more easily imagined when you shoulder isn't being hit with a baseball bat and your eye isn't in serious danger of getting one of those ring-shaped scars known by some as "Weathery eye.")

 

[Straightshooter1]

It seems to me that the way one holds the gun when firing (like free recoil, very firm or anything in between) acts like a tuner. I get my best results from some guns with free recoil and others do best with a firm hand grip held firmly on my shoulder. In any case, I find to get the consistency I like, I have to be hold the particular gun the same way each time I pull the trigger. For the most part, I like to hold the gun very close to free recoil. . . that is, the butt is very light on my shoulder and just a finger on the trigger not holding the grip (the trigger having a light pull (like at 12 oz). It's something like what Lou Murdica can be seen doing here:

 

[urbanrifleman]

Well, hard hold is pretty innocuous in a rifle of that weight. Same for Heavy BR. When the rifles are 30-50#, the contribution of the hard hold is minimal. But if you are shooting a lighter rifle with more recoil, the hard hold can absolutely cause irregularity in your groups. The shooter is now part of the recoiling system.

It may be that the shooter can be a *consistent* part of that system, and thus reduce contributed error. But removing the error contribution entirely is absolutely preferable.

Tubbs ELR rifle is the same as his regular rifle, 22 LBS.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Benchrest, whether LR or SR, is the shooting discipline that requires THE most precision and accuracy, period. If you hard hold a BR rifle you WILL finish at the bottom.

Yah yah...

Try making a cold bore shot on an unknown range target out to say 1500 yards, and tell me who has the most precision.

 

[Hohn]

Tubbs ELR rifle is the same as his regular rifle, 22 LBS.

Fair enough. But I would suggest that Tubb's skill allows him to get away with a hard hold, not that a hard hold is a part of his shooting success.

 

[INTJ]

Yah yah...

Try making a cold bore shot on an unknown range target out to say 1500 yards, and tell me who has the most precision.

You can't make consistent and precise first round hits past about 600 yds without knowing the distance. The longer the distance the more precisely you need to know it. If you say otherwise then you simply have not shot at those distances. When you know the distance then bullet drop is simple to figure. The wind is the big variable so the true skill in ELR, as well as long range hunting, is wind reading. While that it is an important skill applicable to any shooting competition, it isn't the end all of precision.

True precision is when you can put 5 or 10 shots close together at whatever distance. The most precision shooters are the little BR guys. They load for the exact condition while they are shooting and routinely shoot five shots into less than .1" at 100 yds. Next is long range BR where screamer groups are five shots under and inch at 600 and under 3" at 1000.

If BR ever started competing at 1500 yds, which would an incredible amount of both fun and frustration, it wouldn't be long before we'd figure out what precision was at that distance.