Lapua brass life for 223 bolt action updated and edited
- Thread starter Dub
- Start date
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
If you know for sure you're jumping bullets .027", that's a whole lot. Maybe you're using a split neck case to determine this? If not this is a split neck case in a
window gauge. Illustrates how it works. Bullet seats itself in contact with the lands. Do the same thing chambering one of these in your chamber to find the lands.
.I have not seen that before. I used the Hornady comparator tool with their modified case and checked it over and over and came up with 1.883 to the lands. My CBTO is currently 1.856. I have not experimented with seating depths yet. I intended to try .020, .015, and .010 etc once I got a load determined. I had a load that I started with which was 22.8gr of IMR4895 with the 69gr Nosler CC and Fed 205m. Changed to the Varget load as a comparison and found it was a bit better. Then started noticing issues with the brass. Primer pocket is fine and no pressure signs on the primers. I feel sure I am not sizing them correctly and plan to check this step carefully and start over.
So did you deliberately split the neck in a case to do this test?
LET ME ASK,
is the shell holder on the ram just touching the base of the sizing die ??
is the shell holder on the ram just touching the base of the sizing die ??
CharlieNC
Gold $$ Contributor
If you haven't tried only neck sizing only on 223, you should evaluate. I measure the "zero headspace length" by partially seating a primer and then finish seating when bolting into the chamber. Fired brass is consistently .002 shorter on first firing and thereafter when only neck sizing for two rifles/two barrels each thus far. The length does grow, requiring occasional trimming. This does not apply for any of my other rounds, FL sizing required for everything else.
yes per the RCBS instructions.
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
You split a neck with Dremel tool and a thin cutoff wheel. Smooth any burr with a fine rattail file. Takes about 1, maybe 1-1/2 minutes.
Seating bullets, begin just touching the lands and see how it works. Should be fine. Then if you want to see what it'll do. try .005" off, then go .010" if you're curious. I don't bother experimenting. Just touching or .005" off has always worked for me..
In the 223 I don't shoot heavier than 55gr. bullets, have no idea about powder for 69's. Also I don't full length size, only necksize.
People tend to make things more complex than they need to be.
there is your problem.
instructions designed by lawyers, not shooters.
so you are likely way over sizing the brass and then hitting it with a max load, no it will not last long.
buy the Hornady case measuring tool to go with the bullet seating length tool.
size your brass for about .001 case clearance.
you need to strip the bolt to do this, more tools, but the right way.
I would do no load testing ( bullet seating depth) based on the current load..its too hot.
do a search on both of the subjects, adjusting sizing die, ladder load development.
instructions designed by lawyers, not shooters.
so you are likely way over sizing the brass and then hitting it with a max load, no it will not last long.
buy the Hornady case measuring tool to go with the bullet seating length tool.
size your brass for about .001 case clearance.
you need to strip the bolt to do this, more tools, but the right way.
I would do no load testing ( bullet seating depth) based on the current load..its too hot.
do a search on both of the subjects, adjusting sizing die, ladder load development.
I am not new to reloading. Been doing pretty well at it for 40 years. However I am having issues with this round and that is why I asked the question. I honestly appreciate all of the responses so far it is helping. I do agree that the die is not set to give me the proper results.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Lapua .223 Rem brass does not have the thickest web/casehead region available for that cartridge. For F-TR loads with H4895 and 90 VLDs running at ~2850 fps from a 30" barrel, the pressure predicted by QuickLoad is about 57,300 psi, or about 2,300 psi over SAAMI MAX. As you might expect, brass life is poor, maybe 4-5 firings tops before the primer pockets open up. Other brands of .223 Rem brass such as Starline or Lake City that have a thicker web can take the pressure longer.
Regardless of the brand of brass you're using, there is a weak spot in the case wall at the top of the casehead region where the brass tapers down to the standard wall thickness. It is at this point that failure (casehead separation) will usually occur if the brass has been oversized too many times. A friend using Lapua brass was pushing the shoulder on his Lapua .223 brass back to the original virgin (straight out of the box) base-to-shoulder measurement for each re-size. He started getting casehead separation after only 3 to 4 firings. I have found with the Lapua .223 Rem brass that the base-to-shoulder measurement grows by about .005" to .008" on the first firing. If you bump the shoulder back by only 1.5 to 2 thousandths on each re-size after the first firing, it will be fine for many subsequent firings. If you push it all the way back to the original virgin dimension every time you re-size, it will fail pretty quickly.
Along the same line, how often the cases need to be trimmed and and how much material is removed after each firing depends to some extent on the trimmer tool you use. I used to use a Wilson hand trimmer, which indexes from the base of the case to the case mouth. Given the case growth I mentioned above, it is not surprising that the Wilson trimmer would remove quite a bit after the first firing, then only a tiny bit on each subsequent brass prep. Once I switched to a Giraud trimmer, which indexes from the shoulder, the amount of brass that is trimmed after each subsequent firing is miniscule, just barely enough to reveal new shiny brass on the chamfer/bevel.
Regardless of the brand of brass you're using, there is a weak spot in the case wall at the top of the casehead region where the brass tapers down to the standard wall thickness. It is at this point that failure (casehead separation) will usually occur if the brass has been oversized too many times. A friend using Lapua brass was pushing the shoulder on his Lapua .223 brass back to the original virgin (straight out of the box) base-to-shoulder measurement for each re-size. He started getting casehead separation after only 3 to 4 firings. I have found with the Lapua .223 Rem brass that the base-to-shoulder measurement grows by about .005" to .008" on the first firing. If you bump the shoulder back by only 1.5 to 2 thousandths on each re-size after the first firing, it will be fine for many subsequent firings. If you push it all the way back to the original virgin dimension every time you re-size, it will fail pretty quickly.
Along the same line, how often the cases need to be trimmed and and how much material is removed after each firing depends to some extent on the trimmer tool you use. I used to use a Wilson hand trimmer, which indexes from the base of the case to the case mouth. Given the case growth I mentioned above, it is not surprising that the Wilson trimmer would remove quite a bit after the first firing, then only a tiny bit on each subsequent brass prep. Once I switched to a Giraud trimmer, which indexes from the shoulder, the amount of brass that is trimmed after each subsequent firing is miniscule, just barely enough to reveal new shiny brass on the chamfer/bevel.
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searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I agree with
XTR on this - but I also think that load is too warm for your rifle. You don't get case separations after 5 loads due to a little excess headspace or using a full length sizing die - or even a combination of the two. Back off the load at least 1 1/2 grains, keep no more than .002" headspace and you will see a dramatic increase in case life.
I can get up to 20 nice zippy loads per case using LC brass in my .20P (.223 Rem necked down to .20).
Not rocket science - I F/L size after each firing using Redding .223 F/L bushing dies with a .226 bushing and always use the same shell holder that has been shortened slightly. I keep that shell holder in the same box as the dies. I use Lee lock rings on the F/L die and set the whole works up so the bottom of the die gently contacts the top of the shell holder.
Cases are trimmed and maintained at .223 length as specified in my Hornady manual - 1.750.
My thoughts are that excessive pressures will be exhibited by enlarged brass primer pockets not case separations that are the result of excessive head space. After the first firing of virgin brass a slight bump back is evident and without the bump back loaded rounds take noticeable effort to chamber. I F/L size all my ammo. I have found that case separations may be initiated on the first firing with excessive headspace; negative headspace will cause hard chambering; excessive length untrimmed brass will also cause hard chambering. Various bench rest shooters have told me that optimum accuracy requires some headspace - upon seeing their results no arguments from me.
Not rocket science - I F/L size after each firing using Redding .223 F/L bushing dies with a .226 bushing and always use the same shell holder that has been shortened slightly. I keep that shell holder in the same box as the dies. I use Lee lock rings on the F/L die and set the whole works up so the bottom of the die gently contacts the top of the shell holder.
Cases are trimmed and maintained at .223 length as specified in my Hornady manual - 1.750.
My thoughts are that excessive pressures will be exhibited by enlarged brass primer pockets not case separations that are the result of excessive head space. After the first firing of virgin brass a slight bump back is evident and without the bump back loaded rounds take noticeable effort to chamber. I F/L size all my ammo. I have found that case separations may be initiated on the first firing with excessive headspace; negative headspace will cause hard chambering; excessive length untrimmed brass will also cause hard chambering. Various bench rest shooters have told me that optimum accuracy requires some headspace - upon seeing their results no arguments from me.
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