Cream of Wheat forming question

[fyrewall]

Been FF ing brass for years - .257 AI, 6mm AI with COW or similar, CCI 350 primers, various pistol powders - no problems - I have a good system, but I would prefer a .22 Creedmore vs. a .22-.250 AI.

At least, it only needs to be done one time.

Pointing a rifle straight up & firing it without COW & TP & bullet (simple & effective), is contrary to range rules where I shoot and would invite conflict as others are not sympathetic to my needs.

FF ing the huge .375 CT & .416 Barret gets into new territory - I'm not about to make any suggestions on that process.

 

[INTJ]

Although.......it would be cool to watch a video the muzzle flame generated by a massive charge of pistol powder......

 

[Brians356]

Pointing a rifle straight up & firing it without COW & TP & bullet (simple & effective), is contrary to range rules where I shoot and would invite conflict as others are not sympathetic to my needs.

At times I'm grateful I live in the state with the most public land outside Alaska - 57 million acres, or 88% of our 7th largest state, most of it BLM and only twenty minutes from my front door. But it does get lonely at times.
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[Elwood]

I think Trail Boss would be a better bet. As it's a big flakey powder it almost acts like a filler and gives a big case fill. I have used it in a 6 PPC and a Shehane but I was using cheap bullets.

Like everyone else I'm not even going to hazard at a guess for your purpose.

 

[Clark]

18 years ago I paid for a lathe and a 257 Roberts Ackley reamer. I used a piece of 257 Roberts virgin brass as the go gauge. The firing pin pushed the case forward, the sharp ring at the base of the chamber neck stopped the brass after cutting into the brass, the pressure caused the case walls to grab the chamber walls, the pressure pushed back on the case web, and the brass stretched.

I tried ~100 ways to form the brass to fix this problem. Back then I was the highest paid and lowest IQ electrical engineer consultant around. I often solved problems empirically.
I settled on 10 grains of any pistol powder covered with a case full of instant cream of wheat. That formed half a shoulder, that would stand up to the firing pin on the next firing. The next firing could be full power and full accuracy. That light varmint Walther Lothar barrel on a VZ24 shot a 0.45" 5 shot group at 100m.

But Dusty Stevens has been making posts so smart and succinct ... maybe I should try paper towels.

 

[rardoin]

Paper towels or toilet paper may be worth more than the lathe turned bullets nowadays.

I nearly blew coffee out my nose on that one Dave. Thanks, I needed that today.

 

[bozo699]

Way different wear shooting a bullet and fire or just fire not under pressure

Dusty,
I have read and reread I don’t understand your statement, I get it your not a cow fan but not sure what your trying to say
Wayne

 

[Longtrain]

I have used COW with pistol powder for my Dasher and 223AI, no issues at all, probably 90% or more formed. Done probably 800 Dasher cases over the years.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty,
I have read and reread I don’t understand your statement, I get it your not a cow fan but not sure what your trying to say
Wayne

Im saying you dont get the same wear on your barrel firing no bullet just powder and a filler if you choose as you would firing a bullet. Just the fire going down the barrel doesnt wear it out like a bullet under pressure

 

[JMayo]

I used tight group & cow with .5" patch stuck in 6mm bra. It was messy. I think the tight group was the problem. Tar like when cleaning.
Way to too much cleaning but it was great just to stick the case in and fire, no kick back.

 

[bozo699]

Im saying you dont get the same wear on your barrel firing no bullet just powder and a filler if you choose as you would firing a bullet. Just the fire going down the barrel doesnt wear it out like a bullet under pressure

Thanks Dusty that makes sense
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

Has anyone used any of these approaches for larger cases?

 

[bozo699]

Has anyone used any of these approaches for larger cases?

That was the op’s question and I don’t think it was ever answered. I think it could be and I don’t think it would take as much as people think but I don’t know and would not want to suggest a charge however i have a .338 Lapua improved and I may just try it so I know in my own mind if it could be done without damage
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

That was the op’s question and I don’t think it was ever answered. I think it could be and I don’t think it would take as much as people think but I don’t know and would not want to suggest a charge however i have a .338 Lapua improved and I may just try it so I know in my own mind if it could be done without damage
Wayne

It would be cool if you made a video.....

 

[bozo699]

It would be cool if you made a video.....

If I don’t blow my Weatherby Mark 5 apart doing it I will lol
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

That's you need to video the first attempt......

Seriously, I don't know why it wouldn't work. The answer may be to start with a lesser charge vs the 70% Bullseye rule. Although it would be critical to make sure the charge is fully against the primer. If the powder were laying horizontally too much of it might be ignited all at once causing a pressure spike.

 

[bozo699]

That's you need to video the first attempt......

Seriously, I don't know why it wouldn't work. The answer may be to start with a lesser charge vs the 70% Bullseye rule. Although it would be critical to make sure the charge is fully against the primer. If the powder were laying horizontally too much of it might be ignited all at once causing a pressure spike.

9 grains in a 6 br isn’t 70%
Wayne

 

[RW]

I have done quite a few 375h&h to 375 imp. or 375 weatherby and I use unique and I have to use about 15% and a small piece of tissue that fits between thumb and index finger if you hold the muzzle up you can skip the TP as always start at 10% and work up, you can take a paper clip and bend it to run around the inside of the neck RW

 

[Plumsask]

I just did 50 pieces of 30-06 lapua sized down to form in my 6Rem AI. As stated above, I filled an empty case full to the case mouth with W231, dumped it into a pan and weighed it, I started with 10% of what the case held and worked up to 12 grains.

NOTE: one thing I learned t doing this with some cheap win brass is that after every round it's a good idea if you have an air compressor handy to blow out the chamber, I had some C.O.W. the either blew back from the barrel and landed in the chamber or during the firing it somehow made it's way into the body portion of the chamber, when I fired the next round to form it left dimples on the case- still usable but it bothered me. I also along with compressed air spin a oversized bore mop in the chamber to make sure its clean.

 

[Brians356]

18 years ago I paid for a lathe and a 257 Roberts Ackley reamer. I used a piece of 257 Roberts virgin brass as the go gauge. The firing pin pushed the case forward, the sharp ring at the base of the chamber neck stopped the brass after cutting into the brass, the pressure caused the case walls to grab the chamber walls, the pressure pushed back on the case web, and the brass stretched.

I tried ~100 ways to form the brass to fix this problem. Back then I was the highest paid and lowest IQ electrical engineer consultant around. I often solved problems empirically.
I settled on 10 grains of any pistol powder covered with a case full of instant cream of wheat. That formed half a shoulder, that would stand up to the firing pin on the next firing. The next firing could be full power and full accuracy. That light varmint Walther Lothar barrel on a VZ24 shot a 0.45" 5 shot group at 100m.

But Dusty Stevens has been making posts so smart and succinct ... maybe I should try paper towels.

For bulletless forming: If you wet the case body with a scant film of Kroil or Rem Oil, your cases would have lodged firmly against the boltface and prevented web stretch. Also not sure you headspaced the chamber for a crush fit on the Roberts case, typically .010 shorter than the parent chamber, I've read some guys just come in a full turn of the barrel.
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