.223 reloading session - strange numbers

[Loudcherokee]

Hey guys,

So I sat to reload some .223 today. I sorted all my Lake City brass into 3 groups, by weight. I chose the group with the smallest variance to use for these rounds, as this is load development for this rifle.

The rifle is an AR-15 chambered in .223 Wylde with a 20" 1/9 twist barrel. Using the hornady comparator and OAL tool, I measured the CBTO OAL to lands at 1.866. I've not shot the rifle yet, but got some 55g to break in the barrel with before I shoot these rounds.

I started at 23.4g varget, and loaded 4 rounds each up to 25.8g. 26g is listed as max for the 69g Sierra Match King HPBT bullets, and is a compressed load. 25.8 is also compressed it seems, and 25.4 feels slightly compressed as well.

I'm using the Forster benchrest micrometer seating die. Trying to seat a max OAL of 2.250 for mag length, it seems I have some variances and I'm not sure where to start. There were a couple of rounds that I could see a visible burr on the top, and I lightly filed this to remove the burr.

Please see the picture attached. I have a COAL variance from 2.244 all the way up to 2.264, up to .020 difference. A CBTO variance of 1.848 up to 1.865, up to a .017 difference.

Note that my OAL to lands is only 1.866 so that CBTO of 1.865 is only a .001 jump. Since this is load development I would like to have these all as consistent as possible.

With the compressed load, is it going to be possible to crunch these down to get to a consistent jump and under max mag length?

LC

 

[JEFFPPC]

Hey guys,

So I sat to reload some .223 today. I sorted all my Lake City brass into 3 groups, by weight. I chose the group with the smallest variance to use for these rounds, as this is load development for this rifle.

The rifle is an AR-15 chambered in .223 Wylde with a 20" 1/9 twist barrel. Using the hornady comparator and OAL tool, I measured the CBTO OAL to lands at 1.866. I've not shot the rifle yet, but got some 55g to break in the barrel with before I shoot these rounds.

I started at 23.4g varget, and loaded 4 rounds each up to 25.8g. 26g is listed as max for the 69g Sierra Match King HPBT bullets, and is a compressed load. 25.8 is also compressed it seems, and 25.4 feels slightly compressed as well.

I'm using the Forster benchrest micrometer seating die. Trying to seat a max OAL of 2.250 for mag length, it seems I have some variances and I'm not sure where to start. There were a couple of rounds that I could see a visible burr on the top, and I lightly filed this to remove the burr.

Please see the picture attached. I have a COAL variance from 2.244 all the way up to 2.264, up to .020 difference. A CBTO variance of 1.848 up to 1.865, up to a .017 difference.

Note that my OAL to lands is only 1.866 so that CBTO of 1.865 is only a .001 jump. Since this is load development I would like to have these all as consistent as possible.

With the compressed load, is it going to be possible to crunch these down to get to a consistent jump and under max mag length?

LC

Compressed loads not a good idea.Back off on the powder or go to a faster powder if you feel the need for a few more fps. With 69 SMK I have always found happiness at 24.5 to 25.0 gr. wothout compression. Or, try a loooong drop tube and trickle slowly to find the max you can load properly. You realize those compressed bullets have a habit of uncompressing themselves.

 

[grovey]

#1. My first thought is case capacity.... meaning yours probably has less than the cases used in the reloading data you're leaning on.

#2. If your seating depths are all over the map this sounds like your compressing powder which goes hand in hand with # 1.

 

[Loudcherokee]

My Lyman 50th lists 26g as the max load for varget, which is why I loaded up to 25.8. My Hornady 10th doesnt list the 69g HPBT, but lists a 68g HPBT with a max of 25.1g. My 2nd edition Lee doesnt list Varget for the 69g jacketed, but does for a 70g jacketed with 26 as the max load.

That's why I loaded to where I did. I've never dealt with compressed loads before but assumed they would still be safe given that they are listed in the manuals.

So I should pull the last 8 loads that are compressed? The 25.4 and 25.8 grain loads? 25.0 feels slightly compressed as well, and also shows in the OAL measurements.

LC

 

[grovey]

I assume your gun is short throated to feed from a mag, but it still sounds too short? Even my old 700 BDL with a 12 twist was 1.920 bto with a 55gr Berger. My 55gr Berger load was over 27 grs of Varget in IMI brass, and yes they were very compressed.
My Tikka CTR was throated about the same and with lapua brass I was shooting 25.2 behind the 69gr MK.

 

[Loudcherokee]

I assume your gun is short throated to feed from a mag, but it still sounds too short? Even my old 700 BDL with a 12 twist was 1.920 bto with a 55gr Berger. My 55gr Berger load was over 27 grs of Varget in IMI brass, and yes they were very compressed.
My Tikka CTR was throated about the same and with lapua brass I was shooting 25.2 behind the 69gr MK.

I'm not sure, really. I was a little surprised myself. I measured it three times and came up with the same each time, give or take a .0005th. I've never loaded for a .223 wylde before, only 5.56 chambered ARs.

Looks like I may have trouble with the 73g Hornady ELD-M bullets too. Those suckers are LONG. I'll have to seat them even deeper to get them to fit in the magazines.

LC

 

[grovey]

Let your gun tell you where max is, not the manual. I mean... yes it's good reference, but in the end it's the combo of loading components and the rifle which will determine your max. I'd not be afraid to shoot those loads if loaded properly. Reseat all of them tomorrow and try letting them dwell for a few seconds at the top of your stroke. Also you can try seating a few of the long ones using a faster stroke than you normally work your press. In other words don't be as tender when seating. See if it helps you.

 

[rsmithsr50]

no it is very loooong throat if it is a wylde chamber.

I assume your gun is short throated to feed from a mag, but it still sounds too short? Even my old 700 BDL with a 12 twist was 1.920 bto with a 55gr Berger. My 55gr Berger load was over 27 grs of Varget in IMI brass, and yes they were very compressed.
My Tikka CTR was throated about the same and with lapua brass I was shooting 25.2 behind the 69gr MK.

 

[Surfgent]

Ahh the Joy's of 223 loading. I've been working last 4 range trips to find a load with 3031 and 55fmj and 62fmj bullets cause I have 16lbs of 3031 and 4k of the bullets. Also this is out of a bolt gun. I got this cz527 and I'm hoping I can find a load for it with these components. I'm gonna do a run with h335 next time just to see what happens and get back to the 3031 but I like to look for plinking loads 1st in my guns before I move up to fancier components. I have a Remington 700 milspec 5R in 308 that shoots PPU components bullets and brass really well and they cost significantly less than a lupua brassed Berger or Sierra MK especially when I'm just punching paper at the range

 

[Loudcherokee]

Ahh the Joy's of 223 loading. I've been working last 4 range trips to find a load with 3031 and 55fmj and 62fmj bullets cause I have 16lbs of 3031 and 4k of the bullets. Also this is out of a bolt gun. I got this cz527 and I'm hoping I can find a load for it with these components. I'm gonna do a run with h335 next time just to see what happens and get back to the 3031 but I like to look for plinking loads 1st in my guns before I move up to fancier components. I have a Remington 700 milspec 5R in 308 that shoots PPU components bullets and brass really well and they cost significantly less than a lupua brassed Berger or Sierra MK especially when I'm just punching paper at the range

I've read lots of good things about H335. I'm thinking of trying that next along with VV-N140. The only reason I really loaded these up with varget is because I had a 1lb can laying around from about 10 years ago and I want to see what this rifle is capable of. It's my first full build that isnt from a kit.

I'm trying to move away from varget since it's never in stock anywhere, hence the move to H335 or n140. Also may try the two 4895s and 4064 since I also have a .308 bolt gun to load for.

I've got alot of 62g fmjs to load up for plinking. My other AR likes those as well. I usually run 748 under those with good results and it meters so smoothly in my measure. I like it alot.

LC

 

[joshb]

H335 is my favorite 223 powder.

 

[Surfgent]

Ya the h335 is great in my 223/556/223Wyld chambered guns, years ago I bought a bunch of 8lbs'ers of different powders in case there was another shortage or particular stuff might be hard to find. I can't really remember why I thought I'd need so much 3031 since now I don't shoot a 3030 or mosin Negant rifles as much anymore which I remember I used the 3031 for. But there ought to be other uses for it. It's the fun in reloading really.

 

[Bc'z]

I'm not sure, really. I was a little surprised myself. I measured it three times and came up with the same each time, give or take a .0005th. I've never loaded for a .223 wylde before, only 5.56 chambered ARs.

Looks like I may have trouble with the 73g Hornady ELD-M bullets too. Those suckers are LONG. I'll have to seat them even deeper to get them to fit in the magazines.

LC

Window the front of a steel magazine.
It will help you to load a lil bit longer.
Mag well is 2.37

 

[Loudcherokee]

Window the front of a steel magazine.
It will help you to load a lil bit longer.
Mag well is 2.37

The only magazines I have for this rifle are 10 round pmags. My 30 round steel magazines are too long to shoot prone and off the bench with.

LC

 

[bpd459]

Greetings,
24.5gr Varget/ 69gr SMK/ 2.240" oal. If your 1-9" AR wont shoot that, its broke.
Good luck.
John

 

[Old Navy]

Here are my numbers for my RRA 20" Varmint Wylde.

 

[Bc'z]

The only magazines I have for this rifle are 10 round pmags. My 30 round steel magazines are too long to shoot prone and off the bench with.

LC

I use a couple 5 and 10 round steel mags.
Pictured is 6x45 ammo for a 6x45 coal 2.33"
Also helps to elevate compressed loads.

My other thought is make sure you have a VLD seating stem, you might be seeing variations in length if stem is contacting the nose of bullet.

 

[Loudcherokee]

Here are my numbers for my RRA 20" Varmint Wylde. View attachment 1164651

Is that BTO your base to ogive measurement? How are they longer than your chamber length? Are you jamming the lands?

LC

 

[searcher]

Nothing wrong with lightly compressed loads, though when you really have to crunch them down, maintaining seating depth can become a real issue, especially on brass that does not have a lot of neck tension, that is in need of annealing or when using a coated bullet or inside neck lube. Those bullets tend to back out a bit after seating and when they do, it is seldom uniform. You can check the overall length after seating and while it might not change much in 5 minutes - it can change noticeably overnight. I try not to settle on a load that needs excessive neck tension as you are just creating one problem to rid another.

 

[ppaul]

If memory serves me right the wylde chamber has a fairly tight throat diam. Are you sure you actually reached the lands?