185 juggs, RL 15, 1k load

[coolbox]

I have a ton of RL15, and would like to stick with it for now. Please note, I am pretty new in reloading, and FTR itself, under 800 rounds of match experience. I have mainly shot the 185 juggs, and very few (120 odd) of 155.5 FB.

My 32" Bartlein (1:11T) sends the 185 juggs at ~2750 fps with 43.9 gr RL 15, 20 thou jump suits it best. I designed the rifle around 175smk back in 2017, but soon realised I was 'undergunned', and got about 2k of 185 juggs, still have over 1.5k in stock.

I read up that 2750fps was a known node, and I loaded to hit that 'sweet spot' in the past.
I have now started to use the flat velocity spots for load development

43.6gr, 2721 fps
43.8, 2753 fps
44.0, 2747 fps
44.2, 2781 fps
44.4, 2809 fps
44.6, 2801 fps

Above was done in haste, at 110 yards, and I selected 43.9 grains.

It did get me a win at 800 surprisingly, but I had vertical at 1k, beyond what the conditions would suggest. But results at 800 suggest I should not change a thing.

It seems I might have something with 44.5 gr, at ~2800 fps. This load showed no pressure signs.

I would like to know if there are better or known velocity nodes for the 185 juggs with RL 15.

Should I have different loads for different distances for the same bullet/powder combo? Or can I get one load for all distances if adjust the load itself a bit?

Need advise please.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Hey - congrats on your win.
You can definitely have one load that will shoot from 300 - 1000.
I see you shot over the chrony at 110 yards...have you had a look at the 100 yard load dev thread on this site? FPS flat spots is one indicator to look at.
let the barrel tell you were it wants to tune in at - once you have enough FPS to stay well above transonic at 1000 you are gtg.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/long-range-load-development-at-100-yards.3814361/

 

[coolbox]

Hey - congrats on your win.
You can definitely have one load that will shoot from 300 - 1000.
I see you shot over the chrony at 110 yards...have you had a look at the 100 yard load dev thread on this site? FPS flat spots is one indicator to look at.
let the barrel tell you were it wants to tune in at - once you have enough FPS to stay well above transonic at 1000 you are gtg.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/long-range-load-development-at-100-yards.3814361/

Thank you.
I have read all the pages of the Cortina thread, analysed all the target pics shared by members. In fact, I have read so much about load development, I have forgotten more than I can remember! Haha.

Maybe I need to do a Cortina test, over a chrono for flat fps, and reverify results at intended distance.

Or perhaps its the shooter that needs some tuning!

 

[XTR]

A lot of people ran/run them at 2775 plus or minus 25, mostly with Varget, Rx15 may tune a little different. If it’s shooting well at 2800 try it but watch for pressure, esp if your ammo gets hot, but you sound like you are close.

Don’t convince yourself that the faster load is better. Test it and the middle of the slower spot and see which shoots better. Accurate beats fast.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Depending on what sort of vertical we are discussing for you at 1000 - it can be worth re-verifying your load if you are using a load that was selected very early on in a barrels life and or cases were new. Generally speaking I land at a load I would take to matches under 100 rounds. At 300 rounds I verify it and again at 500 rounds. Keep in mind that the throat (IMO) changes a lot in those early rounds and I suspect this impacts seating depth selection.
It could be technique producing the vertical or quite often a very small tweak in seating depth will produce the consistent load...I wouldn't assume it is ES producing the vertical. i.e. I suspect that chasing flat spots in powder FPS probably won't get you the gain you want.

I've uploaded a somewhat dodgy picture of a 1000 yard group....I tracked that vertical down to seating depth - I moved out .003" and tweaked my tuner. What happened is - the vertical was inside my limit at 1000 - just...as I put more rounds down the vertical slowly increased to a scary .9 moa at 900. I had another 100s round down by this time.
I went back to my load dev groups, re-evaluated them and selected a seating depth .003" further out...took it back to 100 to verify, tweaked the tuner and went from there. Over the season and importantly at Nationals it hammered. I'm re-tuning that load now with ~1300 rounds down. Vertical is starting to show up and 100 yard test has verified it.

So long story - it is worth re-verifying loads over time. You can have a really good relay (many get hung up on one good relay so the load must be good) but in the bigger picture the load isn't actually stable.

 

[coolbox]

Depending on what sort of vertical we are discussing for you at 1000 - it can be worth re-verifying your load if you are using a load that was selected very early on in a barrels life and or cases were new. Generally speaking I land at a load I would take to matches under 100 rounds. At 300 rounds I verify it and again at 500 rounds. Keep in mind that the throat (IMO) changes a lot in those early rounds and I suspect this impacts seating depth selection.
It could be technique producing the vertical or quite often a very small tweak in seating depth will produce the consistent load...I wouldn't assume it is ES producing the vertical. i.e. I suspect that chasing flat spots in powder FPS probably won't get you the gain you want.

I've uploaded a somewhat dodgy picture of a 1000 yard group....I tracked that vertical down to seating depth - I moved out .003" and tweaked my tuner. What happened is - the vertical was inside my limit at 1000 - just...as I put more rounds down the vertical slowly increased to a scary .9 moa at 900. I had another 100s round down by this time.
I went back to my load dev groups, re-evaluated them and selected a seating depth .003" further out...took it back to 100 to verify, tweaked the tuner and went from there. Over the season and importantly at Nationals it hammered. I'm re-tuning that load now with ~1300 rounds down. Vertical is starting to show up and 100 yard test has verified it.

So long story - it is worth re-verifying loads over time. You can have a really good relay (many get hung up on one good relay so the load must be good) but in the bigger picture the load isn't actually stable.

This was my target at 800 mtrs (875 yards), 200@9X.

2nd best was 200-6X

Then 198s and 197s.

I was shooting through barrel mirage, which Probably caused a few high shots (between 11th and 14th shots, not marked though).
I slowed down a tad after, waiting for the scope/image to clear up, and managed to avoid high shots in the last few rounds. The load was good for half moa or so during testing, but perhaps needs some tuning to get better even at this distance.

I dont hv pic of 1k target, but it was over 1 moa for sure. It was 1000 mtrs, 1094 yards.

The barrel has 1980 rounds through it, of which about 800 are shot in matches, others during practice or during load development.

The seating depth adjustment is a good point. I am not using a tuner as yet. I will have to rely on es/sd or a ladder test at the respective distance.

 

[Ned Ludd]

This was my target at 800 mtrs (875 yards), 200@9X.

2nd best was 200-6X

Then 198s and 197s.

I was shooting through barrel mirage, which Probably caused a few high shots (between 11th and 14th shots, not marked though).
I slowed down a tad after, waiting for the scope/image to clear up, and managed to avoid high shots in the last few rounds. The load was good for half moa or so during testing, but perhaps needs some tuning to get better even at this distance.

I dont hv pic of 1k target, but it was over 1 moa for sure. It was 1000 mtrs, 1094 yards.

The barrel has 1980 rounds through it, of which about 800 are shot in matches, others during practice or during load development.

The seating depth adjustment is a good point. I am not using a tuner as yet. I will have to rely on es/sd or a ladder test at the respective distance.

That's a little more vertical than you would like to see at 800m. It will only increase at 1000m. However, and this is an important point in load development, if there was much wind the day you shot that target, it can be more difficult to figure out whether the vertical was due to the load, the conditions, or some of both. Various types of terrain or structures like berms are notorious for giving vertical dispersion during wind pickups/letoffs, especially with headwinds or tailwinds.

I'd expect your 185 Jug/Re15 load to tune in somewhere in the ~2750 fps range with a 32" barrel. As has been noted, you should easily see the velocity range where the load wants to shoot optimally when doing charge weight testing. Pushing it faster will not make it shoot any better, and usually makes it worse. With Varget and 185 Jugs out of a 30" barrel setup I have, the sweet spot is routinely between 2720 and 2725 fps. It is not fast, but is stupid precise. Obviously, such a load is giving up quite a bit to a high BC 200 gr bullet at ~2650 fps, especially at 1000 yd. Nonetheless, the 185s Jugs can work well at 1000 yd; the 185 Hybrids are even a bit better, IMO.

If your vertical was solely due to the load (i.e. not the wind) you should be able to tune some of it out with seating depth optimization. With the Juggernaut, I'd test them from ~.009" off the lands to about .030" off the lands in .003" increments. The optimal seating depth window will likely fall somewhere in that region and should be obvious.

 

[coolbox]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I will load some and report back with findings, and maybe more questions.

 

[markgrabowski]

Good thread!