Reloading question/help

[rsmithsr50]

I LIKE rws lapua ADG.
YOU GOTTA BUY A LOT, sort and sell off what you do not want or need as weight sorted.
I was in the brass biz for awhile so it was no big deal.
buy 3 or 4 times what you want, sort to the smallest you can and sell off the rest.
if you only need plus or minus .5gr, nosler comes that way, BUT it you want .25, simply buy more boxes from the same lot and resort.
some examples
300 win mag my rws lot was 4000, but I was buying to sell, the weight sort was a side benefit.
223 win Winchester 500 pcs got me a couple of lots at plus/minus .1

What brand of brass do you use to get that level of consistency?

How many pieces would one need to purchase to get 50 that were within .1 gn?

 

[rsmithsr50]

What brand of brass do you use to get that level of consistency?

How many pieces would one need to purchase to get 50 that were within .1 gn?

here is an example
I just bought 100 pcs of 338 edge ADG brass, two 50 rd boxes
1st box 275.2 to 277.2, 276.2 plus or minus 1.0
2nd box adds 274.8 to 277.2 276.0 plus or minus 1.2
as is probably great for a hunter
the best I can do with this is
48 at 276.6+/-.4
45 at 275.7+/-.4
ITS A PRETTY BIG case , they tell me to get over it.

i'd like smaller and might get to +/- .2 with 4 boxes, but alas they are
122 per box and I do not have it.
for .1, probably 8 boxes and 6-7 groups of 45 or so at +/- 0.1.

 

[dgeesaman]

How important is weight sorting cases iyo

In my case, I attempted weight sorting as well as water volume sorting for the first time recently. I took 25 new Peterson 6BR brass fireformed to 6BRA and measured both dry weight and water weight. I used a Sartorius Entris 64 scale and performed the water fill 3x per case. At the end of it all, I found no correlation between chrono velocity and either dry weight or water volume.

Certainly this does not put anything to bed but I will ignore dry weight until I get my velocity ES into the single digits.

I have been using Lapua and Peterson brass. This brass is extremely consistent. If you’re using another brand of brass the advantage may be more pronounced.

 

[Muzzlestuffer]

What makes you think the inside diameter is too small? Have you tried seating one? Have you measured both outside and inside diameter. Have you measured neck thickness with a ball micrometer? Have you ran one through you sizing die?

New cases will be a bit tight. They should be fireformed, resized and then measure the length. They will stretch a bit, which will thin the necks a bit also. If you have a standard chamber, you should not have to turn the necks down unless they is a big difference in outside diameter after firing. I am assuming this is a hunting rifle and not being used in benchrest competition.

Ok so here is a measurement on a new lapua case case wall thickness .15 thou each side total .30, outside dimension .289 deduct .30 from 289 that leaves .259, bullet diameter is .264 so that is .005 thou difference if I want .002 thou retention this would be .003 thou more than what I want am I missing something ?

 

[dgeesaman]

Ok so here is a measurement on a new lapua case case wall thickness .15 thou each side total .30, outside dimension .289 deduct .30 from 289 that leaves .259, bullet diameter is .264 so that is .005 thou difference if I want .002 thou retention this would be .003 thou more than what I want am I missing something ?

I agree with you that’s very heavy neck tension.

An expander might bring it back but that’s a fair amount of working the neck each time. Not to mention how hard the expander will pull on the case neck. I’d want a different bushing.

David

 

[rsmithsr50]

wrong approach
measure the neck of a seated bullet micrometer, not a caliper.
now do your math from a known DATA point, not from a calculated number.
the math does not always equal real life.

Ok so here is a measurement on a new lapua case case wall thickness .15 thou each side total .30, outside dimension .289 deduct .30 from 289 that leaves .259, bullet diameter is .264 so that is .005 thou difference if I want .002 thou retention this would be .003 thou more than what I want am I missing something ?

 

[Straightshooter1]

Ok so here is a measurement on a new lapua case case wall thickness .15 thou each side total .30, outside dimension .289 deduct .30 from 289 that leaves .259, bullet diameter is .264 so that is .005 thou difference if I want .002 thou retention this would be .003 thou more than what I want am I missing something ?

If you add .030 (the neck wall thickness .015 X2) to the bullet diameter .264 you get a total of .294. To get .002 neck tension, you double that, which equals .004, and subtract that from the .294. Therefor you need to size your neck to .290 to get the .002 neck tension.

Correction: On rereading this, I see was wrong in how I calculated this above (and maybe this is what rsmithers50 is referring to). In second sentence I shouldn't have said to "double that" (don't know what I was thinking there), but you do subtract the .002 from the .294 to get the neck size for the desired .002 neck tension. Duhhh!

 

[rsmithsr50]

your version of ".002 neck tension" and mine are not the same.

If you add .030 (the neck wall thickness .015 X2) to the bullet diameter .264 for a total of .294. To get .002 neck tension, you double that, which equals .004, and subtract that from the .294. Therefor you need to size your neck to .290 to get the .002 neck tension.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Ok so here is a measurement on a new lapua case case wall thickness .15 thou each side total .30, outside dimension .289 deduct .30 from 289 that leaves .259, bullet diameter is .264 so that is .005 thou difference if I want .002 thou retention this would be .003 thou more than what I want am I missing something ?

If they are all that size, .015 is extreme although I just checked another site and found that it is apparently within Lapua specs. I have never had a Lapua go over .014 and most are .013. I would fireform these cases before I turned the necks. Then resize them and measure the length as well as the neck thickness.

 

[Straightshooter1]

your version of ".002 neck tension" and mine are not the same.

OK??? Explain.

This seems to be what's typically being referred to with regards to neck tension, though I would agree that technically . . . it's not a measurement of any tension force.

 

[Muzzlestuffer]

OK??? Explain.

This seems to be what's typically being referred to with regards to neck tension, though I would agree that technically . . . it's not a measurement of ay tension force.

I want the internal neck diameter at .262 hence .002 tension

 

[Straightshooter1]

I want the internal neck diameter at .262 hence .002 tension

Adding the .030 to the .262 would give you an outside diameter of .292 you'd want to size to. Simple? Am "I" missing something?

 

[Muzzlestuffer]

your version of ".002 neck tension" and mine are not the same.

If your bullet is .264 and you internal neck is .262 isn't that .002 tension ?

 

[ebb]

I don't even understand why a neck size that has never been through your dies matters. All your future reloading will be your cases as they come out of the resizing die. What ever your bushing in your die or neck expander makes the neck will determine the neck tension. All of my 6.5 mm bullets measure 264, why are you adding numbers to 260 that is the cartridge name and bore diameter. Bullet diameter plus neck wall x 2 equals loaded round diameter. Inside neck diameter (after sized) plus neck wall diameter X 2 subtracted from loaded round diameter gives a number that when divided by 2 is how many thousands neck tension you have. Changing the inside neck diameter now before sizing achieves nothing, maybe it lets you load the first time with out running the cases through the die. I hope this helps, if not PM me and we can talk on the phone,

 

[Muzzlestuffer]

If they are all that size, .015 is extreme although I just checked another site and found that it is apparently within Lapua specs. I have never had a Lapua go over .014 and most are .013. I would fireform these cases before I turned the necks. Then resize them and measure the length as well as the neck thickness.

I plan on fire forming but I still have to prep these new cases so I really can't do that till I fire them ?

 

[Muzzlestuffer]

If they are all that size, .015 is extreme although I just checked another site and found that it is apparently within Lapua specs. I have never had a Lapua go over .014 and most are .013. I would fireform these cases before I turned the necks. Then resize them and measure the length as well as the neck thickness.

I have checked a few and some are a tad over .015

 

[Muzzlestuffer]

I don't even understand why a neck size that has never been through your dies matters. All your future reloading will be your cases as they come out of the resizing die. What ever your bushing in your die or neck expander makes the neck will determine the neck tension. All of my 6.5 mm bullets measure 264, why are you adding numbers to 260 that is the cartridge name and bore diameter. Bullet diameter plus neck wall x 2 equals loaded round diameter. Inside neck diameter (after sized) plus neck wall diameter X 2 subtracted from loaded round diameter gives a number that when divided by 2 is how many thousands neck tension you have. Changing the inside neck diameter now before sizing achieves nothing, maybe it lets you load the first time with out running the cases through the die. I hope this helps, if not PM me and we can talk on the phone,

I do not use a expander type of die just neck size and shoulder bump

 

[Bill Norris]

I do not use a expander type of die just neck size and shoulder bump

If the brass is turned I see no need to use the expander button either.

 

[Muzzlestuffer]

I don't even understand why a neck size that has never been through your dies matters. All your future reloading will be your cases as they come out of the resizing die. What ever your bushing in your die or neck expander makes the neck will determine the neck tension. All of my 6.5 mm bullets measure 264, why are you adding numbers to 260 that is the cartridge name and bore diameter. Bullet diameter plus neck wall x 2 equals loaded round diameter. Inside neck diameter (after sized) plus neck wall diameter X 2 subtracted from loaded round diameter gives a number that when divided by 2 is how many thousands neck tension you have. Changing the inside neck diameter now before sizing achieves nothing, maybe it lets you load the first time with out running the cases through the die. I hope this helps, if not PM me and we can talk on the phone,

I guess now that I'm thinking about it I started out using Peterson brass and did load this way and fire formed that brass then like you said I neck sized it back down with the neck bushing so I guess I was thinking I would try to achieve the same neck tension right out of the gate with the new lapua brass I was thinking that extra seating pressure would be a little more than I like I might have read about this as well or watched a video on prepping new brass?

 

[Muzzlestuffer]

If the brass is turned I see no need to use the expander button either.

Let me correct myself I don't use a expander die because once I'm fire formed the neck is too large and needs to get necked back down it's the new brass that needs the internal expansion so I bought a Wilson mandrel die and a expander for .264 bullet diameter