Question concerning annealing and neck tension.

[Philip Theodhor]

i have been perhaps going about this in an incorrect manner when loading for a 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge.these are the steps that I take
1) Decap Brass
2) Fl resize using a match grade die set with a bushing of .003" under that of the neck diameter
3) Trim brass to a given case length
4) Use a Redding body die & competition shell holder set to establish a .002" neck bump
4) Anneal brass
5) Tumble brass cases in steel pin media to clean
6) Dry brass @ 104 degrees for 1 hour to remove any residual water( done in a parts dryer)
7) Hand Inspect brass then prime my hulls
8) Seat bullet to a given Horandy bullet seating Comparartor reading minus the jump factor
Herein lies the rub (neck tension vary s consequentially,my bullet seating depth does as much as .003" C.O.A.L.
I must measure each round starting high and creep up to the C.O.A.L. very carefully. I have noticed that as the neck tension increases the bullets do not seat the same way and need to be adjusted usually by.003" to make the correct jump factor and C.O.A.L dimensions.
Do you think as I do that perhaps the annealing of the brass should be done using the FL sizing match grade die set after the brass has been tumbled and not before? i suspect that my brass necKwall ID has changed from the annealing itself.
What are your thoughts? OBTW brass was full length resized then run through a Sinclair neck expanding die .001" over ID to allow fitting on my neck turning tool's arbor which is .001" oversize.
I only use this die before I neck turn virgin brass,and the brass that i'm referring to has been fired 2-3 times and is not been neck turned again however it has been annealed before each round has been assembled.

 

[Prose]

You should anneal before you size

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I just hunt, but I (1)universal deprime (2) clean/dry (2b) anneal(after couple firings) (3) FL size -trim if needed (4) mandrel for desired neck tension (5) load. I don't have chambers with special/tight necks.

 

[gman47564]

Deprime and clean then anneal then do your sizing.. im also not sure why your using a body die to bump your shoulder after you use a fl bushing die to set the neck. Why not bump the shoulder with the fl bushing die?

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Unless you turn your necks to set them to a uniform diameter, Neck tension will vary. I've had new Lapua brass neck diameter, vary by several thousands.

I deprime, clean, anneal and reform the cases.

 

[Bc'z]

Clean
Deprime
Anneal
Size
Prime
Load
Shoot
Start over

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I would suggest deburring/chamfering the case mouth after stainless cleaning, and before sizing.

 

[Bob L.]

I would suggest deburring/chamfering the case mouth after stainless cleaning, and before sizing.

I have been chamfering/deburring after sizing. Is there a downside to doing this vs doing it before sizing?
Not questioning your process. I just never thought about it before.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Deprime
Anneal
Clean
Size
Trim
Load
Fire

Note: I anneal before cleaning so that the cleaning removes any kind of burned on residue left on or in the neck. And I anneal after every firing.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I have been chamfering/deburring after sizing. Is there a downside to doing this vs doing it before sizing?
Not questioning your process. I just never thought about it before.

I have found that the stainless media tends to peen the mouth of the case, making a thickened burr. As this can affect the accuracy of sizing, I like to remove it prior to sizing. For me, a quick pass over the Giraud does the trick, and still leaves room for trimming, if desired, after sizing.

 

[gman47564]

^^^^ good advice... tumbling with pins has a tendency to roll the edge over on the mouth... a quick inside chamfer before sizing removes it...

 

[Forum Boss]

To Philip

1. What brand of brass are you using?

2. Less may be more.
-- I honestly think you are over-doing it

I anneal about every 6th loading. Before that, this is my procedure. For 6BRDX (similar to 6BRA) the last measured 100-yard test group was 0.158" (4 shots). I am holding .0015" in base to ogive for 50 rounds, and 11-13 FPS ES for 5 shots. The last 600-yard match I shot I had small group.

1. After firing, within 60 minutes, wipe case with aerosol Ballistol on patch to remove carbon on outside of neck.
2. With Whidden FL bushing die, deprime and size case after applying very thin coat of aerosol Ballistol on patch. (There are other good thin lubes.)
3. Nylon brush inside neck 3-4 times (some guys use dry lube on brush. I don't.)
4. Prime case with RCBS strip primer tool.*
5. Seat bullet with micrometer inline die and arbor press.

That's it. My FL die is set to "bump" about 0.0015". Lapua Brass, Lapua bullets, Varget, CCI 450.

If your neck tension is an inconsistent as you say, I suspect low-quality brass and/or your brass is getting too dry/rough in the inside of the neck during your cleaning process.

Don't worry about the inside of your cases being a bit dirty.

Honestly I think if you do a LOT less you may get better results, with lower ES. But start with Lapua brass.

Last point -- some guys have had excellent results annealing every time. I don't seem to need to do that, but I will start seeing some inconsistency in neck "grip" after 5 firings.

-------------
* The 21st Century and Frankford adjustable tool have much better "feel" and are more precise. However the strip primer is much faster and I don't have to touch the primers.

 

[muleman69]

To Philip


I have always fired 5 shot test group, should I be only do 4?


Honestly I think if you do a LOT less you may get better results, with lower ES. But start with Lapua brass.

Last point -- some guys have had excellent results annealing every time. I don't seem to need to do that, but I will start seeing some inconsistency in neck "grip" after 5 firings.

-------------
* The 21st Century and Frankford adjustable tool have much better "feel" and are more precise. However the strip primer is much faster and I don't have to touch the primers.

 

[Forum Boss]

When testing sometimes I do three, sometimes four, sometimes five. This time it was three to test a seating depth and one more for good measure. I generally do three for initial load testing 0.3 grain increments.

 

[Bc'z]

When testing sometimes I do three, sometimes four, sometimes five. This time it was three to test a seating depth and one more for good measure. I generally do three for initial load testing 0.3 grain increments.

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!
So today I actually shoot 5 shot groups for testing after listening to everyone say 3 shots ain't a group, and now the leader of the pack says he shoots 3 shot groups.
Oh well, now I'm thoroughly confused..
Just kidding you boss.
I still put 5 in .22" @100 yards with my cheapo 6five Ruger American predator.

 

[Forum Boss]

You would certainly want to confirm a good load with five, and run five or more over the chron to confirm your ES/SD. But in our load dev, in windless conditions from bench, we are looking for sub-0.3 MOA. If it's bigger than that for three shots, there is no point in shooting more.

 

[D-4297]

FWIW .... I was having horrible SD / ES numbers while being fanatically OCD about my reloading ; and case prep , and literally by accident , I looked at my necks edge with a opti-visor . What I saw was a very small burr on some cases , and not others . Apparently ; the burr was being installed during the "wash" cycle to remove the lube after sizing . I do a wet tumble process , without pins . Simple fix was to start lightly deburring the inside of every case neck just prior to loading , though they had all been deburred after the first cleaning cycle . SD / ES came down to "reasonable" , and scoring went back up to almost acceptable ....Not a serious fan of using SD/ES numbers as a "yardstick" , after shooting two , 200-20X's with a SD of 13.9 & 13.11 ......Go figure .

 

[Steve Ladino]

i have been perhaps going about this in an incorrect manner when loading for a 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge.these are the steps that I take
1) Decap Brass
2) Fl resize using a match grade die set with a bushing of .003" under that of the neck diameter
3) Trim brass to a given case length
4) Use a Redding body die & competition shell holder set to establish a .002" neck bump
4) Anneal brass
5) Tumble brass cases in steel pin media to clean
6) Dry brass @ 104 degrees for 1 hour to remove any residual water( done in a parts dryer)
7) Hand Inspect brass then prime my hulls
8) Seat bullet to a given Horandy bullet seating Comparartor reading minus the jump factor
Herein lies the rub (neck tension vary s consequentially,my bullet seating depth does as much as .003" C.O.A.L.
I must measure each round starting high and creep up to the C.O.A.L. very carefully. I have noticed that as the neck tension increases the bullets do not seat the same way and need to be adjusted usually by.003" to make the correct jump factor and C.O.A.L dimensions.
Do you think as I do that perhaps the annealing of the brass should be done using the FL sizing match grade die set after the brass has been tumbled and not before? i suspect that my brass necKwall ID has changed from the annealing itself.
What are your thoughts? OBTW brass was full length resized then run through a Sinclair neck expanding die .001" over ID to allow fitting on my neck turning tool's arbor which is .001" oversize.
I only use this die before I neck turn virgin brass,and the brass that i'm referring to has been fired 2-3 times and is not been neck turned again however it has been annealed before each round has been assembled.

I haven't read much here about lubricating the bullets and the inside of the neck with a dry lube powder on 7 1/2 or 6 shot lead balls. Like said, over cleaning takes out the lubricating residue left in the neck after firing.

 

[Vinootz]

i have been perhaps going about this in an incorrect manner when loading for a 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge.these are the steps that I take
1) Decap Brass
2) Fl resize using a match grade die set with a bushing of .003" under that of the neck diameter
3) Trim brass to a given case length
4) Use a Redding body die & competition shell holder set to establish a .002" neck bump
4) Anneal brass
5) Tumble brass cases in steel pin media to clean
6) Dry brass @ 104 degrees for 1 hour to remove any residual water( done in a parts dryer)
7) Hand Inspect brass then prime my hulls
8) Seat bullet to a given Horandy bullet seating Comparartor reading minus the jump factor
Herein lies the rub (neck tension vary s consequentially,my bullet seating depth does as much as .003" C.O.A.L.
I must measure each round starting high and creep up to the C.O.A.L. very carefully. I have noticed that as the neck tension increases the bullets do not seat the same way and need to be adjusted usually by.003" to make the correct jump factor and C.O.A.L dimensions.
Do you think as I do that perhaps the annealing of the brass should be done using the FL sizing match grade die set after the brass has been tumbled and not before? i suspect that my brass necKwall ID has changed from the annealing itself.
What are your thoughts? OBTW brass was full length resized then run through a Sinclair neck expanding die .001" over ID to allow fitting on my neck turning tool's arbor which is .001" oversize.
I only use this die before I neck turn virgin brass,and the brass that i'm referring to has been fired 2-3 times and is not been neck turned again however it has been annealed before each round has been assembled.

Why all the details of your reloading process? Anyhow,anneal before you size-lol