Lot speeds are they by design or luck of the draw

[garandman]

If what you are saying is true that speed is an important factor to their protocol. when you go to test why do they not ask which speed you want to test?




Lee

1. It's their job to sell more not less ammo. All the testing we do accomplishes that objective . It's actually profitable to them if we look at 22 rim fire velocity as a mystical magical unpredictable thing. It's not at all mystical or magical to them… they test the velocity of every single lot of every single bullet that leaves their factory and arrange the inventorying system around that fact. Their action and approach is telling us that they view individual componentry as the thing that drives velocity and velocity is a major thing they are concerned about . That extended Attitude and deliberative behavior is likely more important than anything they would say to you over the phone.

2. Even if they did ask that question, they have no way of knowing what speeds going to shoot best in our individual barrels

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee.... I just observe their pattern of behavior n ask myself why they do what they do.

With velocity being the primary component of their inventory system number, it strongly suggests that velocity is immensely important to the manufacturer and forms a critical component of how they view their own product.

So… why do you think they make velocity the primary component of their entire inventory system if it doesn't matter immensely to them... If it is not a critical measurement in their thinking or just happens by luck/chance?

How do you come to this conclusion that speed is what their inventory is based?

 

[garandman]

An analogy... If you told me your car was no big deal to you it's just a car (words) But you kept your car in a locked garage with an armed security guard nearby (actions) ...

... My assessment would be that your actions speak louder than your words.

The manufacturers actions are to base their entire business model and inventory system around the velocity of a 22 rim fire round

 

[garandman]

How do you come to this conclusion that speed is what their inventory is based?

1. Its on the website.

2. Its how Killiough and others sell ammo

3. Its how they test *all* their ammo.

4. I asked them.

 

[VLNBYR]

[QUOTE
Why do they go to all the work of testing velocity , recording it, putting it on their website and making it a critical component of their entire inventory system if it's just a luck/chance number?[/QUOTE]

They're in business to sell ammo, give the buyer what he wants, or thinks he needs.

 

[Tim s]

How do you come to this conclusion that speed is what their inventory is based?

What he does not realize based ( go look ) on previous commentary is that virtually nobody, but nobody, I ever know or heard of, selects ammo by velocity.
It used to be(With ELEY) you could go a long time with machine selection, unfortunately, you cannot do that any more since they rebuild the machines and the whole deck gets reshuffled.
Bottom line in that most speeds and, now, almost any machine can yield killer stuff.
Used to be 6 machine was great, the last year, it seems both 2 and 4 machine have been very good.
To get the absolute best result you simply have to test a lot.
It has given rise to several that do group tests/buys to get into it quickly with a variety of lots and barrels. Lots of stuff works great somewhere and it cuts down on the man hours and time.
Clint, for instance, gets stuff, sends emails and THAT DAY 1/2 of it is gone, your only chance is to buy blind.....not ideal.
Plan B is to send the gun to either test tunnel for a test/buy. I have done this with ELEY. The trick there is, you cannot be in a hurry and should wait until they have decent lot selection.

Ask yourself one question, if velocity was that important, why don’t they even publish it on the boxes any more, not every soul goes to their web site to check.
That, plus the fact that it is recorded on their semi match barrels. Is yours tighter, looser, it’s gonna be faster, slower, how much ? Not a clue until it is tested on your platform vs published fps.

 

[garandman]

They're in business to sell ammo, give the buyer what he wants, or thinks he needs.

Yup. Said that same thing above.

 

[Tim s]

[QUOTE
Why do they go to all the work of testing velocity , recording it, putting it on their website and making it a critical component of their entire inventory system if it's just a luck/chance number?

They're in business to sell ammo, give the buyer what he wants, or thinks he needs.[/QUOTE]

John, does anybody, I mean anybody, you, me included, know if the speed variance, sometimes ever so slight, is not simply a byproduct of stopping one lot and starting another?
Some of it, no doubt, comes from parallel runs on different machines since I doubt they can be set to run exact speed runs.

 

[VLNBYR]

For Eley their speed is the average of 200 rounds and there could be all kinds of variation in that lot from the beginning of the run to the end. Since there are often wild variations between the factory speeds and what shooters chronograph I tend to pay little attention to any of it.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

great.. i will be interested in what he has to project on the subject

Well Doc, it seems you were correct in that they do try and set a goal of 327mps or 1073 fps.
here is the reply I got-

As far as velocities go, that 327 m/s speed is the medium. Most lots will be in the range of 325 to 330 m/s which puts 327 right in the middle. This is done knowing that there will be a very minor variation in speed which is inherent within production of any factory ammo. The goal is 327 which provides us with our high and low range that is still at a velocity that is fast while still maintaining subsonic velocity which is most efficient.

I hope that makes sense.

So for Lapua they do start off for a particular speed, in this case 327mps, but not intentionally to get anything else.
as was noted other lot speeds are a result of manufacturing variation and nothing else.
so it is as I thought, lots speeds are random, with exception of what was noted as their goal.

This makes sense in that in mass produced products you need a base standard, in this case 327mps/1073fps is theirs. everything else is fallout of plus or minus from the base goal!

Lee

 

[garandman]

The goal is 327

So they specifically select their powder charge and priming compound and bullet diameter and case and all the components and tailor their entire manufacturing process for the goal of 327...

And they inventory all their ammo based upon the velocity it actually achieves.

But velocity is not a significant factor.

OK, then.

I guess cubic inch displacement is not a significant factor for Ford motor company in manufacturing the Mustang either...

Surreal.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

So they specifically select their powder charge and priming compound and bullet diameter and case and all the components and tailor their entire manufacturing process for the goal of 327...

And they inventory all their ammo based upon the velocity it actually achieves.

But velocity is not a significant factor.

OK, then.

I guess cubic inch displacement is not a significant factor for Ford motor company in manufacturing the Mustang either...

Surreal.

327 seems that's more a Chevy engine as in Camaro!

 

[garandman]

327 seems that's more a Chevy engine as in Camaro!

Well played ! Lol

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Well played ! Lol

I am a die hard Grumpy Jenkins guy, though I have worked on Fords and actually drive one for the last 20 years, shame on me!

Lee

 

[Tim s]

I am a die hard Grumpy Jenkins guy, though I have worked on Fords and actually drive one for the last 20 years, shame on me!

Lee

 

[garandman]

Yours ?

 

[Tim s]

Lee,
There’s a Ford for you. Owned this for a few years, tried to kill me every other week.

 

[Tim s]

No substitute for cubic inches

 

[pmpski_1]

How clean is the barrel to start with? the idea in fouling is to lay fresh new lube down in the barrel, if there is some carbon or old lube, it will be hard and crusty and cause the new lube to not stick or adhere to the bore as well, if the bore was clean.
every match .22 I every owned, even with factory barrels shot best when starting with a clean barrel. and normally no more than 10-fouling shots were needed. one thing I did notice was on factory barrels, if they were in good condition they took less shots to foul, if condition was somewhat questionable (pitting, damage) they took more and accuracy fell off rather quickly.

Lee

I was cleaning before every match and shooting 15-20 fouling shots \ sighters before moving to the targets (2 USBR targets, so about 70 rounds per match). It would do pretty good, but I usually did slightly better on the second target. Sometimes drastically better. Then I didn't clean it for the last two matches, so there's about 300 rounds on it right now. (One of those matches was a different format and I shot a lot more). It's shooting absolutely lights out for me right now - the last two targets I had personal best scores. Although the last 7 or so bulls I shot I noticed the POI creeping higher every shot.

FWIW, It's an Anschutz 1903 with a stock barrel shooting a very good lot of CenterX.

It could be my technique getting a little better - I'll need to clean it and do some experimentation.

 

[USMCDOC]

Well Doc, it seems you were correct in that they do try and set a goal of 327mps or 1073 fps.
here is the reply I got-

As far as velocities go, that 327 m/s speed is the medium. Most lots will be in the range of 325 to 330 m/s which puts 327 right in the middle. This is done knowing that there will be a very minor variation in speed which is inherent within production of any factory ammo. The goal is 327 which provides us with our high and low range that is still at a velocity that is fast while still maintaining subsonic velocity which is most efficient.

I hope that makes sense.

So for Lapua they do start off for a particular speed, in this case 327mps, but not intentionally to get anything else.
as was noted other lot speeds are a result of manufacturing variation and nothing else.
so it is as I thought, lots speeds are random, with exception of what was noted as their goal.

This makes sense in that in mass produced products you need a base standard, in this case 327mps/1073fps is theirs. everything else is fallout of plus or minus from the base goal!

Lee

well i am glad to see that we all know the base line goal in production.. funny thing, i have gotten my best results from Center-X in the 328 range and Pistol Match.. i am down to my last brick and a half of really good shooting PM ammo.. Here is a target that i shot two weeks ago in switching winds. The barrel was cleaned for the winter.. took 6 shots to warm it up and then shot through conditions and no sighters.. Ammo is Pistol Match
For those that have shot this target, knows that it isn't as easy as it seems, if the plug don't touch the ten dot, it's a nine, but could very well still be a ten on a 50/50 target.