Done with Nylon brushes...

[bugman]

I will take your nylon brushes. IM sent.

next in line

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Who knows what to believe.

Here's a video that will turn this thread on its head. Lou kinda knows his stuff too.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=638423259992938

 

[garandman]

@hogpatrol ... Thanks for posting that. It well makes the point that even the barrel *manufacturers * cannot agree on the "single best method"

 

[urbanrifleman]

Who knows what to believe.

Here's a video that will turn this thread on its head. Lou kinda knows his stuff though.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=638423259992938

If you are babying your barrel and thinking not scrubbing it is going to make it shoot better, its dirty and will just get dirtier. Then you will say your barrel "is shot out" when it's really just dirty.

Really good for the barrel makers...hahahaha

I have tasked people before on this forum to scrub the OUTSIDE of their barrel with abrasive with a patch and show anyone that they removed metal, and I have yet to receive a response.

Very good info about the chamber cleaning. That's a good one.

One pass for every shot. That seems about right.

 

[JFrank]

@Ledd Slinger
Look at the mess you done made.

Lol

 

[coldboreshot]

This is like conservatives vs the left. Each side as its idea how to solve the problem but here we are...as bad as it was yesterday.

 

[garandman]

It is as badd as politics. Make any affirmative statement about shooting, reloading, cleaning, holding a firearm, thinking about firearms, etc... And you're sure to have someone come along and tell you you're an idiot and 3 or 4 people come along and tell you you're definitely wrong.

And those 3 or 4 people will never agree about what is the right idea/method.

 

[coldboreshot]

Generally, whatever process gives you all the confidence to sleep well at night, do it.

 

[Deleted outa08]

View attachment 1126451 YMMV, yada yada.
Kreiger:
We recommend the use of good quality, name brand chemical cleaners on a proper fitting patch/jag combination for your particular bore size and good quality properly sized nylon or bronze brushes.

Shilen:
How do I clean my new Shilen barrel?
As with break-in and using coated bullets, you will find many diverse opinions on this subject.
EQUIPMENT: Cleaning Rods: Use a good quality coated cleaning rod with a rotating handle. The rotating handle allows the brush or patch to follow the lands and grooves. A non rotating handle forces the brush bristles to jump over the lands and grooves instead of following them.
BRUSHES: Use a good brass or bronze brush with a looped end. Do not use a brush with a sharp, pointed end.
SOLVENTS:
Every shooting product manufacturer has their own miracle solvent, and most do the job as advertised.

Lilja:
Suggested equipment and solvents
It is important to use an action rod guide when cleaning. The guide aligns the rod with the bore and helps prevent uneven wear in the throat area. Be careful not to raise the handle end of the rod while stroking. This will put a “belly” in the rod that will wear the barrel. We suggest that plastic coated rods, like the Dewey and Parker-Hale, be used.

Our preferred cleaning solvent is Butch’s Bore Shine. This solvent is excellent at attacking both powder and copper fouling. We recommend it for both break-in and regular cleaning.

For occasional use only, abrasives like J-B paste, Flitz, or RemClean can be used.

Do not use a stainless steel brush in your barrel under any circumstances.

Do use a bronze brush with Butch’s Bore Shine or similar solvents. A nylon brush can be used in place of patches but should never be substituted for a bronze brush. Some shooters mistakenly believe that a bronze brush will harm a barrel; it will not.

Do not apply a strong copper remover, like Sweets, on a bronze brush. It will ruin the brush and give the false indication that the barrel has copper in it. This is a good time to use a nylon brush.

Hey HP, to quote an elderly statesman" We take the truth over facts". Whatever that means. But thanks for the info. Jeff

 

[urbanrifleman]

I think bore cleaning can be verified. Its completely scientific in this respect. Many people have verified results. It's not really OPINION.

What you have is lots and lots of MISINFORMATION. That's where this discussion always goes... into OPINION, and most of it is misinformed (myself included). There are so many subjects that have become VOODOO when they should be very straightforward. This is not rocket science.

No one cares to really PROVE anything... because they simply choose to believe what they think they already know, and sleep like a baby in their own imagination.

Its kind of a thing that has become quite common in our culture today. Science becomes opinion. Whoever has the loudest megaphone is the one that everyone listens too.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

If you are babying your barrel and thinking not scrubbing it is going to make it shoot better, its dirty and will just get dirtier. Then you will say your barrel "is shot out" when it's really just dirty.

There was a big argument many years ago about brass and bronze brushes harming barrel bores. Not having a bore scope at the time to verify, I bought into the BS.

Got a bore scope when the very first Lyman borecams hit the market. First, found that nylon alone didnt always get the job done unless used with a fairly abrasive solvent. Second, found that bronze brushes didnt harm anything. So I still used bronze brushes when I wanted the barrel really clean down to the bare metal for things like barrel break in. The borescope showed that bronze did a much better job.

I also found that if I didnt use a bronze brush every once on a while, my accuracy would start to fall off. Investigation showed that there were some carbon deposits ahead of the lead and behind the crown that nylon just couldnt quite remove no matter how much scrubbing I did.

Like Lou in the video, I am getting tired of all the strokes required to clean with nylon. I like his drill method with nylon to get the solvent engrained in the carbon of the bore, then only one bronze brush stroke per shot would be good to make sure you dont clean it to bare naked steel. Of course for barrel break in, I would do more bronze strokes because I want bare naked steel each time during break in.

 

[Forum Boss]

If you do not own a bore scope then I would take EVERYTHING you read on the Internet with a grain of salt. I tested most of the cleaning methods listed here, including maintenance requirements for the carbon ring, and most of these methods do not work.

There is NO PRODUCT that will clean away the hard carbon at the throat. You will have to scrub it with something. Something abrasive. That is all I will say on the subject, because it is so controversial to even bring it up. But there is no CHEMICAL that will clean your barrel.

Again, I disagree strongly. I have a borescope (Hawkeye) plus a very good endoscope. All my best-shooting barrels are rarely if ever brushed.

In all those barrels, there is NO Hard Carbon ring. Repeat, No Hard carbon ring.

It doesn't show up in my barrels, probably because I am getting rid of the carbon before it forms.

But part of the secret is that I always clean right at the end of a match, or shooting session. I clean at the range. I clean when the barrel is warm. 5-6 soaking Wet patches with Butch's or Carb-Out. Then the bore is flooded with Wipe-Out. After 20 minutes or so, the bore is flooded a second time with WipeOut. Breach and Muzzle are plugged, I drive home, then patch the barrel 4-6 hour later. If the barrel is going to sit for a month or more it gets a patch with Eezox.

Also the inventor of WipeOut says there is a chemical that, over time with multiple applications, helps prevents fouling build-up. I cannot confirm this, I can only say my barrels are easy to clean.

NOTE -- Keep brushing with bronze if you like. There are World Champions who clean aggressively. There are far better shooters than me who believe in the value of JB and abrasives. But you may be surprised to find that you can reduce your brushing by an order of magnitude.

 

[urbanrifleman]

There was a big argument many years ago about brass and bronze brushes harming barrel bores. Not having a bore scope at the time to verify, I bought into the BS.

Got a bore scope when the very first Lyman borecams hit the market. First, found that nylon alone didnt always get the job done unless used with a fairly abrasive solvent. Second, found that bronze brushes didnt harm anything. So I still used bronze brushes when I wanted the barrel really clean down to the bare metal for things like barrel break in. The borescope showed that bronze did a much better job.

I also found that if I didnt use a bronze brush every once on a while, my accuracy would start to fall off. Investigation showed that there were some carbon deposits ahead of the lead and behind the crown that nylon just couldnt quite remove no matter how much scrubbing I did.

Like Lou in the video, I am getting tired of all the strokes required to clean with nylon. I like his drill method with nylon to get the solvent engrained in the carbon of the bore, then only one bronze brush stroke per shot would be good to makes sure you dont clean it to bare naked steel.

Sir, I found the very same thing. The people that megaphone that basically any real level of cleaning of the steel is doing more harm than good, I suspect do not have a bore scope. Once you get a borescope and understand the level of cleaning required to stay ahead of the carbon, you realize that the Internet is filled with really bad misinformation. Of course, I am sure I will be flamed by someone in this regard, but I would say my cleaning routine is ten times LESS aggressive than Lou's and his is verified.

But then there will be inevitably someone that will say "oh I would never do that to my barrels".

Its steel. It's not butter.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I do have some JB bore paste and it seems to work quite well on a nylon brush wrapped with a pad. Another one that works well with nylon is Rem 40X.

However, my issue is speed of the cleaning process. When doing a barrel break in, I just want to get the process over with. None of the nylon combinations can get down in a standard 90 degree groove like a bronze brush will. With 5R, 5C, and other non-90 deg groove rifling, nylon brushes seem to be very effective with the proper cleaning solvent/paste. But still wont get the job done as fast as a bronze brush.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Again, I disagree strongly. I have a borescope (Hawkeye) plus a very good endoscope. All my best-shooting barrels are rarely if ever brushed.

In all those barrels, there is NO Hard Carbon ring. Repeat, No Hard carbon ring.

It doesn't show up in my barrels, probably because I am getting rid of the carbon before it forms.

But part of the secret is that I always clean right at the end of a match, or shooting session. I clean at the range. I clean when the barrel is warm. 5-6 soaking Wet patches with Butch's or Carb-Out. Then the bore is flooded with Wipe-Out. After 20 minutes or so, the bore is flooded a second time with WipeOut. Breach and Muzzle are plugged, I drive home, then patch the barrel 4-6 hour later. If the barrel is going to sit for a month or more it gets a patch with Eezox.

Also the inventor of WipeOut says there is a chemical that, over time with multiple applications, helps prevents fouling build-up. I cannot confirm this, I can only say my barrels are easy to clean.

NOTE -- Keep brushing with bronze if you like. There are World Champions who clean aggressively. There are far better shooters than me who believe in the value of JB and abrasives. But you may be surprised to find that you can reduce your brushing by an order of magnitude.

I don't brush. I clean when the barrel is warm (just as most people do). I used Bore Tech Eliminator and JB paste at every cleaning and STILL got carbon build up.

Jb Paste on a patch would not touch the carbon ring from my testing.

 

[mikecr]

urbanrifleman, how about telling us how you clean & what works for you. I'm interested.

 

[Forum Boss]

Quote: "I used Bore Tech Eliminator and JB paste at every cleaning and STILL got carbon build up."

I don't like Eliminator. I have seen that stuff cause very rapid corrosion.

"JB Paste at every cleaning"

WTH? Stop using that paste every time! I don't know ANY top shooter who cleans that way!! It changes the surface of the barrel. Repeated use of abrasives can accelerate wear.

Also different powders have different properties. I typically shoot Varget, RL16, H4350.

 

[urbanrifleman]

urbanrifleman, how about telling us how you clean & what works for you. I'm interested.

You can send me a pm. I can't discuss it here.

Quote: "I used Bore Tech Eliminator and JB paste at every cleaning and STILL got carbon build up."

I don't like Eliminator. I have seen that stuff cause very rapid corrosion.

"JB Paste at every cleaning"

WTH? Stop using that paste every time! I don't know ANY top shooter who cleans that way!! It changes the surface of the barrel. Repeated use of abrasives can accelerate wear.

Also different powders have different properties. I typically shoot Varget, RL16, H4350.

Walt Berger used JB Paste every cleaning for decades. He did ok.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I am no top shooter (I do know one pretty well), so its just my personal observation with my own two eyes.

Some powders are going to foul the throat worse than others. That seems to be pretty evident. So, I don't think there are any hard fast rules that apply to every barrel or load, or type of shooting.

Cleaning the carbon out of a barrel you thought was "clean" is a very educational experience is all I will say.

I have a brand new barrel I just started shooting it. I switched powders and endeavor to shoot that powder until it is finished. I plan to clean using my method and scope every 500 rounds to see if it works. Then I will know, and I can see it for myself. The only way to know at this point.

 

[DukeDuke]

which JB? bore bright with red lettering on the box or cleaning compound with blue lettering?