Bad Primers or Carbon Ring?

[Sixgun]

I hoping you guys can help diagnose these primers. Most of these primers are blown out. It's just 40.8g of h4350 ..nothing out of line. I've shot these before although it was 10 degrees cooler. It from a Defiance action with an unsleeved firing pin. I think its .062 and the good folks at GAP said it wouldn't be a problem. Free bore is .141.

I'm thinking either bad primers, carbon ring (500 rounds through a Bartlein) or h4350 is not as temp stable as it should be. On the cover of the box the plus and minus numbers in and off the lands -.0075 is off. The blown primer was only 2795?

Its four sets of 25 just as they're labeled. The grain weights are five round columns for the bottom fifty. What do you guys think?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

10deg got your hot load even hotter. Back it off some

 

[Sixgun]

10deg got your hot load even hotter. Back it off some

What happened to temperature stable?

 

[Texas10]

I see what appears to be extractor marks suggesting it's possible that there is more than one indication of over pressure. You're using a 205 primer, not a 205M or 205M-AR with an even heavier cup, so there is an avenue if you want to shoot a very hot load for ballistics reasons.

Aside from that, I'd recommend buying an extra trigger or two and some good life/health insurance and you're good to go!

 

[Texas10]

What happened to temperature stable?

Had same problem with Varget and 223. Great load that shot extremely well in temperate conditions, but went to hell at 90*. Popping primers all over the place. Dropped it to the next lower node and viola! Perfectly tame.

 

[Chuckhunter]

It's an overpressure load to begin with so the hotter the temp gets the higher the pressure goes, no matter the powder. The 6.5X47 Lapua case is as tough as nails so lucky for you the primers will usually go way before the case. In the QL screenshot, I used default settings and a 26" barrel. Default temp. is 70" The projected chamber pressure was 64,048 and a Muzzle velocity of 2817

 

[Sixgun]

I see what appears to be extractor marks suggesting it's possible that there is more than one indication of over pressure. You're using a 205 primer, not a 205M or 205M-AR with an even heavier cup, so there is an avenue if you want to shoot a very hot load for ballistics reasons.

Aside from that, I'd recommend buying an extra trigger or two and some good life/health insurance and you're good to go!

Yeah, I just got off the phone with my insurance agent...he said get an extra trigger.

 

[Sixgun]

This was a perfectly good load 10 degrees ago..and I worked up to it and it shot like a .250 at 200y! I wonder how far I'll have to drop it maintain its velocity and accuracy? I would think if it was over-pressure..velocity would be more like 2850 on up?

 

[Chuckhunter]

This was a perfectly good load 10 degrees ago..and I worked up to it and it shot like a .250 at 200y! I wonder how far I'll have to drop it maintain its velocity and accuracy? I would think if it was over-pressure..velocity would be more like 2850 on up?

I can only assume 10 degrees ago you were still over pressured at 40.8 gr's of H-4350. Berger manual for the 140 Gr.Hybrid lists max load at 38.9 Gr's. Just a suggestion but I would try backing off at least a one grain and since I don't know what primers you were using I would suggest one with a heavy cup like a CCI 450 or a Wolf srm. and before shooting clean the rifle throat with either JB Bore cleaner or Iosso paste by short stroking the hell out of it. Remember with the 6.5X47 case you can be substantially over pressure and never realize it because the case is so strong it won't show a hard bolt lift or ejector marks near as quickly as most other brass. Good Luck and let us know what you determine.

 

[Sixgun]

I can only assume 10 degrees ago you were still over pressured at 40.8 gr's of H-4350. Berger manual for the 140 Gr.Hybrid lists max load at 38.9 Gr's. Just a suggestion but I would try backing off at least a one grain and since I don't know what primers you were using I would suggest one with a heavy cup like a CCI 450 or a Wolf srm. and before shooting clean the rifle throat with either JB Bore cleaner or Iosso paste by short stroking the hell out of it. Remember with the 6.5X47 case you can be substantially over pressure and never realize it because the case is so strong it won't show a hard bolt lift or ejector marks near as quickly as most other brass. Good Luck and let us know what you determine.

Yup...gonna drop it a whole grain maybe one and a half and adjust seating depth with 450 primers. They were Fed 205M's. Interesting you mention bolt lift because bolt lift seemed completely normal.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

What happened to temperature stable?

No such thing

 

[AJC]

No such thing

Another marketing gimmick to sell more product. You don't say.... Saying less temperature effected does not sound so good.

 

[Drop Port]

A few things to consider.
-You didn't blow a primer you blanked it so the little disc of primer material could be inside your bolt. I would start by taking it apart and cleaning it.
-Defiance (I believe) came with pin size options so I would confirm the size. Most of mine liked pressure and shot better as I pushed it and needed a .062 tight fit.
-I have seen lots of H-4350 that ran 1/2 grain on the hot side.
-.141 Free bore is on the short side to hit an upper node. I run a .200 FB with 140 Hybrids (.062) and high 2800's is attainable, 10+ loads on the brass
-450 primers most often (not always) shot best and are on the tough side. With H-4350 the rifles I've loaded for preferred 450's.
-The only load I'll pull the trigger on without checking is the load I worked up in the hottest weather I'll be shooting in. Especially if it is near max.

 

[Drop Port]

What was the actual temperature that day and what length barrel is it?

 

[Sixgun]

Another marketing gimmick to sell more product. You don't say.... Saying less temperature effected does not sound so good.

No such thing

We're only talking 10 degees and not even extreme 65 -75? I didnt even let them dwell in the chamber before taking the shot. Maybe my scale was lying..its only an old rcbs 505 although I do have a Chargemaster and an old lyman dps 1200. Dont use them much because I'm afraid they're gonna lie to me.

 

[Sixgun]

What was the actual temperature that day and what length barrel is it?

75 -80 but i wasn't in the sun. Bartlein 26" MTU contour.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Maybe my scale was lying..its only an old rcbs 505 although I do have a Chargemaster and an old lyman dps 1200. Dont use them much because I'm afraid they're gonna lie to me.

I use the RCBS M500 instead of my GemPro-250 (my GemPro electronic just wanders a little too much for me) and I always calibrate the scale with my Lyman Scale Weight Check Set to be sure I'm getting the same measurements each time I load. My RCBS scale has been doing a great job for getting consistent measurements (and I've found it helps a lot when magnifying the pointer using a webcam and computer where I easily see the difference from a single granule). If I don't calibrate each time, I've found I could be several 10ths of a grain off . . . mostly, I think, due to a slightly different location of the scale on my work surface, and in my case . . . the additional difference in angle of the camera at set up.

 

[fyrewall]

I routinely use H4350 between 20 degrees F to 90 degrees F with same loads with no problem. By same, equal powder charges within .1 grain and identical components. Same for IMR 8208. I have confidence in Hodgdon/ADI to produce powders that don't exhibit major pressure spikes with temperature increases. I don't attempt to get just under catastrophic loads. H4350 & IMR 8208 probably have very minor non-linear pressure increases with temperature changes but prudent load amounts will never cause problems. A 10 degree F increase is nothing. The statement "No such thing" has no basis.

Cold coyotes @ 20* and hot rodents @ 90* - but not with H414.

If temperature extremes are expected I use H4350 or IMR 8208 in my 6.5X47 L with thicker cup primers like CCI 450's, 41's or Rem 7 1/2's with loads shown in various manuals. I get better long range accuracy with extruded powders. No sticky bolt lifts, pierced primers and the rest of it.

100 rounds? I see at least 2 with leaking around primers and numerous cratered primers. I would use a thicker cup primer like a CCI 450 or CCI 41 and less H4350.

I trace the foot print of my scale on the bench top with a felt tip pen to assure a consistent location.

 

[Sixgun]

I use the RCBS M500 instead of my GemPro-250 (my GemPro electronic just wanders a little too much for me) and I always calibrate the scale with my Lyman Scale Weight Check Set to be sure I'm getting the same measurements each time I load. My RCBS scale has been doing a great job for getting consistent measurements (and I've found it helps a lot when magnifying the pointer using a webcam and computer where I easily see the difference from a single granule). If I don't calibrate each time, I've found I could be several 10ths of a grain off . . . mostly, I think, due to a slightly different location of the scale on my work surface, and in my case . . . the additional difference in angle of the camera at set up.

Do you recheck your zero on your m500? I notice if I load 25...come back later and load more my zero changes having never move the scale.

 

[Sixgun]

I routinely use H4350 between 20 degrees F to 90 degrees F with same loads with no problem. By same, equal powder charges within .1 grain and identical components. Same for IMR 8208. I have confidence in Hodgdon/ADI to produce powders that don't exhibit major pressure spikes with temperature increases. I don't attempt to get just under catastrophic loads. H4350 & IMR 8208 probably have very minor non-linear pressure increases with temperature changes but prudent load amounts will never cause problems. A 10 degree F increase is nothing. The statement "No such thing" has no basis.

Cold coyotes @ 20* and hot rodents @ 90* - but not with H414.

If temperature extremes are expected I use H4350 or IMR 8208 in my 6.5X47 L with thicker cup primers like CCI 450's, 41's or Rem 7 1/2's with loads shown in various manuals. I get better long range accuracy with extruded powders. No sticky bolt lifts, pierced primers and the rest of it.

100 rounds? I see at least 2 with leaking around primers and numerous cratered primers. I would use a thicker cup primer like a CCI 450 or CCI 41 and less H4350.

Well I'm definately drop the charge and go with 450's. This was new brass btw. One thing I noticed was no heavy bolt lift or primers excessively flattened.