My new 22BR!

[Evan]

Hi Folks. I've been posting up questions revolving around the 22BR recently.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/new-22br-coming-which-dies.3979615/
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/are-the-90s-worth-it-in-a-22br.3977792/

I also posted up the new stock I made for my 22-250, which was burned out and I rebarreled to 22BR:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/new-stock-for-my-22-250.3978615/

And I even got a new scope for it to replace the ancient Burris Signature 8-32:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/sightron-10-50x60mm-svss-ed-moa-h-review.3980390/

Well, the gunsmith called me up with some excellent news Friday afternoon: my new barrel was ready! So for the first time ever, I loaded up my reloading equipment in the truck and took it all out to where I shoot with me. It's about a 75 mile, 1h10m drive, and I really wasn't sure what would work and what wouldn't with this new-to-me cartridge.


I started with Reloader 17:

• At 29gns, 88ELDs hard jammed, my magnetospeed showed 2900fps.
• At 30gns, 3000fps
• At 30.5gns, 3050fps
• At 31gns, 3075fps

The whole ladder grouped about like this at 150yards. The far stray high left was the first shot, then I dialed down and over for the rest. Shot one at a time, with a ~5minute reloading break between each shot and no particular care taken to watch my wind flags. I stopped at 31gns as that was above my target speed (I only really wanted 3000 to 3050). Nasty storm clouds, with lightning and heavy rain were charging up on me, so I loade dup 5 more rounds at 31gns, hard jam, and shot this group a bit hastily:

3 all tightly knotted together then I threw 2 out of the group. I'm extremely hopeful that without the pressures of an oncoming storm, and a bit of careful tuning, that I can get five shots to go into at least the 2s.

Out there, it looked like everything was fine. When I got home and carefully inspected the brass, I discovered some very faint ejector marks:

Right over the "6" is the faint ejector mark. The proud primer crater happened to every piece, from 29 up to 31gns but never got worse.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the most important part! I absolutely love this cartridge. I have very limited experience with it, but so far, it is a really sweet little thing to shoot!

 

[Evan]

For those interested, here is a little comparison picture:

6.5 Creedmoor with 147ELD, 22-250 with 55gn, and the 22BR with 88ELD.

 

[xswanted]

For those interested, here is a little comparison picture:
View attachment 1111971
6.5 Creedmoor with 147ELD, 22-250 with 55gn, and the 22BR with 88ELD.

Evan, I’ve been following this along but don’t remeber how long I’d Barrel you ended up with?

 

[Evan]

Evan, I’ve been following this along but don’t remeber how long I’d Barrel you ended up with?

When the smith was done, I ended up with about 27.75 or so inches. It was a 29" Bartlein 1:7 5R HV blank.

 

[Evan]

My strategy today was to drive pressure as high as could be expected by hard jamming and running up the ladder. I had brought some Varget, H-380, IMR 4320, and IMR 4350 along too in case the RL-17 wasn't working out but it turned out that it was entirely unnecessary. The RL-17 was working great, which is nice because I have a few 5lb jugs of it for my 6.5 creedmoor. Today's 5-shot string at 31gns had an ES of 7 and SD of 2. I don't know if that's going to be a normal occurrence, but wow was I surprised! So my next step is to load up the rest of the 100 rounds at the slightly lower 30.5gns and test from hard jam out to a 0.020" jump in 0.005" increments while fire forming at 300yards or so to see what looks good.

I think I can be fairly confident that pressures will always be lower than I saw today: the bullets will probably end up jumping a little (based on my past ELD experiences) and with fireformed cases, I'll also gain a little bit of capacity. Once I get all 100 pieces fireformed and a rough jump picked out, I'll come back in and fine tune the powder charge to see if there is a node somewhere nearby.


Also, for future reference, here is the reamer print my smith used:

Which I think works really nicely for the 88ELD. I'm seated with the base of the boattail at the neck-shoulder junction and a solid 0.200+ inches of room to chase the lands. This is also a no-turn neck. My Lapua brass ended up at 0.2495 to 0.250 on loaded neck diameter and worked fine with no turn.

 

[xswanted]

When the smith was done, I ended up with about 27.75 or so inches. It was a 29" Bartlein 1:7 5R HV blank.

Sweet.

Looks like it’s going to be good.

Do you know what freebore your reamer was?

 

[Evan]

Sweet.

Looks like it’s going to be good.

Do you know what freebore your reamer was?

0.100 freebore.

I'm also currently using a 0.248 bushing in the FL bushing die and that's been great. I may buy a 0.249 to try too. I have a 0.247 but don't plan to go for more tension, just based upon how much neck I have gripping the bullets.

 

[xswanted]

0.100 freebore.

I'm also currently using a 0.248 bushing in the FL bushing die and that's been great. I may buy a 0.249 to try too. I have a 0.247 but don't plan to go for more tension, just based upon how much neck I have gripping the bullets.

I use a .248 in mine.

That’s as large as I go as a few years ago when I was shooting a 75 Berger jammed into the rifling the bullet came out when I opened the bolt during a coyote call that produced nothing.

I mainly just use it for target shooting now but I reworked a load with 80 VLDs and have them a touch off the rifling to prevent that from happening again.

It’s an awesome cartridge for sure. My favorite for sure.

 

[lpreddick]

This is a fun cartridge as it wants to shoot...I have two. The Magnetospeed chrono attached to your barrel will affect your guns grouping ability. It acts like a barrel tuner. Will be interesting to see groups without it.

 

[Evan]

This is a fun cartridge as it wants to shoot...I have two. The Magnetospeed chrono attached to your barrel will affect your guns grouping ability. It acts like a barrel tuner. Will be interesting to see groups without it.

Yeah, it's coming off. I use it when I'm unfamiliar with pressures and powder for a new cartridge: by velocity I can understand when I'm getting hot.

Now that I've got the ladder up to max, I'll test without it. I don't give 2 licks about SD or ES, they've never made a difference in my tuning.

 

[Evan]

For those who are interested, here is the 88 ELD seated at the lands with a "0.100 freebore chamber:

Went out shooting today and had a pretty disappointing day. Hot and breezy, it felt like it should be a good day for small groups but it was not to be.

At 150 yards. These are seating depth increments from .025 hard jammed, all the way to 0.025" jumped. I dunno what to make of it. I didn't feel like I was shooting poorly. I experimented a little towards the end with shooting the gun a little differently but saw no improvement.

And here is the best I have to show at 330 yards. The top group was right after cleaning the gun and the first shot went high. Breeze picke dup on the next group where I was aiming at the top point of the diamond. Top group is right at the lands - nominally 0. The second group is 0.005" off the lands.

All in all, I'm a bit disappointed. I don't know what to think: was it a bad day for me shooting, is the barrel not good, are the bullets bad, or does it not like RL17? My gut says it doesn't like the 88 ELD. What do you guys think? What do I try next? New bullet (90SMK or 90 berger)? New powder (Varget or 4350)? Load more 88 ELD up from 0 to 0.005" off the lands and a few tenths of a grain up and down from 30.5gns of RL17 and see what happens next weekend?

Oh, for those interested, I recently rigged up my Chargemaster Lite with a battery:

Works like a charm!

 

[Evan]

Oh, exhibit A of why I may have been having a bad day:

3 groups from my 6.5 Creedmoor today at 330yards. This gun, in my hands, is usually a <0.5MOA gun at this range. Today, it was more in the 1 MOA range. It felt breezy, but I've experienced odd up-drafts at this location in the past and variable wind along the range.

By the way. I hate cows. If you look in the way back of my photo, you'll see a small herd of cows that just meandered on through where I was shooting. I'd been there over an hour at that point and these cows were entirely unconcerned! Thank goodness they kept on moving and didn't stop, ending my shooting early. As it was they took the better part of 30 minutes to clear the area to where I could start shooting again and in that time the mirage got noticeably worse!

 

[284winner]

For those who are interested, here is the 88 ELD seated at the lands with a "0.100 freebore chamber:
View attachment 1113056
Went out shooting today and had a pretty disappointing day. Hot and breezy, it felt like it should be a good day for small groups but it was not to be.
View attachment 1113058
At 150 yards. These are seating depth increments from .025 hard jammed, all the way to 0.025" jumped. I dunno what to make of it. I didn't feel like I was shooting poorly. I experimented a little towards the end with shooting the gun a little differently but saw no improvement.
View attachment 1113057
And here is the best I have to show at 330 yards. The top group was right after cleaning the gun and the first shot went high. Breeze picke dup on the next group where I was aiming at the top point of the diamond. Top group is right at the lands - nominally 0. The second group is 0.005" off the lands.

All in all, I'm a bit disappointed. I don't know what to think: was it a bad day for me shooting, is the barrel not good, are the bullets bad, or does it not like RL17? My gut says it doesn't like the 88 ELD. What do you guys think? What do I try next? New bullet (90SMK or 90 berger)? New powder (Varget or 4350)? Load more 88 ELD up from 0 to 0.005" off the lands and a few tenths of a grain up and down from 30.5gns of RL17 and see what happens next weekend?

Oh, for those interested, I recently rigged up my Chargemaster Lite with a battery:
View attachment 1113059
Works like a charm!

I'm going to say not to be afraid to jump those 88s alot more than .010. They love to jump. As far as having enough case room to do that is another story. I'd say continue using the 88s but jump at .050 and work down to .010.

 

[xswanted]

Oh, exhibit A of why I may have been having a bad day:
View attachment 1113065
3 groups from my 6.5 Creedmoor today at 330yards. This gun, in my hands, is usually a <0.5MOA gun at this range. Today, it was more in the 1 MOA range. It felt breezy, but I've experienced odd up-drafts at this location in the past and variable wind along the range.
View attachment 1113066
By the way. I hate cows. If you look in the way back of my photo, you'll see a small herd of cows that just meandered on through where I was shooting. I'd been there over an hour at that point and these cows were entirely unconcerned! Thank goodness they kept on moving and didn't stop, ending my shooting early. As it was they took the better part of 30 minutes to clear the area to where I could start shooting again and in that time the mirage got noticeably worse!

I wouldn’t be afraid to try h4350 either.

You might have just been in a funk too, keep going.

 

[Evan]

I'm going to say not to be afraid to jump those 88s alot more than .010. They love to jump. As far as having enough case room to do that is another story. I'd say continue using the 88s but jump at .050 and work down to .010.

It's a good point. My RPR loves the 147s, but they're jumping something insane like 0.120" in the factory chamber when I seat them to feed out of the magazine. But they've shot in the teens on a regular enough basis to make me re-evaluate what I thought I knew about jumping bullets that far!

I've got enough room with this load; I'd say the 30.5gn of RL-17 is maybe 90% full. You can hear powder move if you shake a round. I may run the Berger test and seat some at 100 75, 50, 25, and 0 to try.

I wouldn’t be afraid to try h4350 either.

You might have just been in a funk too, keep going.

My hesitation with H4350 is that it is so sporadically available here. I've got a pretty good supply of IMR-4350 though which holds promise too. My 30-06 loves it (why I have a supply) and the 6.5 Creedmoor really likes it to (it's my backup load for if RL17 dries up). I have a lot of 3031 and 4320 too (my grandpas 300 savage loved them) and the 4320 could be a good one to try since it's similar to Varget.

I appreciate the encouragement, guys; I think I went into it yesterday with the wrong expectations and was disappointed when it didn't go the way that I thought it should. I want to try the 95 SMK when the next run of them is made and see if I can get something good to happen, but I am really hoping I can find a great load with the 88s cause the price is right.

 

[284winner]

It's a good point. My RPR loves the 147s, but they're jumping something insane like 0.120" in the factory chamber when I seat them to feed out of the magazine. But they've shot in the teens on a regular enough basis to make me re-evaluate what I thought I knew about jumping bullets that far!

I've got enough room with this load; I'd say the 30.5gn of RL-17 is maybe 90% full. You can hear powder move if you shake a round. I may run the Berger test and seat some at 100 75, 50, 25, and 0 to try.



My hesitation with H4350 is that it is so sporadically available here. I've got a pretty good supply of IMR-4350 though which holds promise too. My 30-06 loves it (why I have a supply) and the 6.5 Creedmoor really likes it to (it's my backup load for if RL17 dries up). I have a lot of 3031 and 4320 too (my grandpas 300 savage loved them) and the 4320 could be a good one to try since it's similar to Varget.

I appreciate the encouragement, guys; I think I went into it yesterday with the wrong expectations and was disappointed when it didn't go the way that I thought it should. I want to try the 95 SMK when the next run of them is made and see if I can get something good to happen, but I am really hoping I can find a great load with the 88s cause the price is right.

I'm jumping some of the ELDs around .150 with excellent accuracy.

 

[xswanted]

It's a good point. My RPR loves the 147s, but they're jumping something insane like 0.120" in the factory chamber when I seat them to feed out of the magazine. But they've shot in the teens on a regular enough basis to make me re-evaluate what I thought I knew about jumping bullets that far!

I've got enough room with this load; I'd say the 30.5gn of RL-17 is maybe 90% full. You can hear powder move if you shake a round. I may run the Berger test and seat some at 100 75, 50, 25, and 0 to try.



My hesitation with H4350 is that it is so sporadically available here. I've got a pretty good supply of IMR-4350 though which holds promise too. My 30-06 loves it (why I have a supply) and the 6.5 Creedmoor really likes it to (it's my backup load for if RL17 dries up). I have a lot of 3031 and 4320 too (my grandpas 300 savage loved them) and the 4320 could be a good one to try since it's similar to Varget.

I appreciate the encouragement, guys; I think I went into it yesterday with the wrong expectations and was disappointed when it didn't go the way that I thought it should. I want to try the 95 SMK when the next run of them is made and see if I can get something good to happen, but I am really hoping I can find a great load with the 88s cause the price is right.

I think I mentioned it before but my 22BR loves IMR4350. But I found it more difficult to load because it doesn’t pack as dense as does H4350. That was with 75s to though.

With an 88 you might not find that problematic.

Try it, gun might love it.

 

[Evan]

Alrighty, so I went out today and discovered that I've been wasting my time with the wrong darn powder! RL17 shoots like doodoo. Here's the target. The 5 big groups are RL17:

IMR-4350, however, shoot AMAZING. I started at 29gns and I shot one of the smallest groups I've ever shot right off the bat. I loaded up 5 with 29gns of 4350, 88ELD seated 0.065" off the lands, CCI 450, new never-fired Lapua brass and this is what happened:

Wow! 150 yards and just under 0.100". Holy moly. Oh IMR, why do I stray from thee. IMR has NEVER disappointed me and for some weird reason I am always trying other powders first.

At 29gns, I knew I was going slow. I didn't have my magnetospeed up for that group, so I decided to run a ladder and hooked the magnetospeed up. Here is the ladder from 29gns up to 31.5:

And here is a nice graph comparing where I got to with IMR4350 and RL17:

both made it to 3075fps, but IMR is showing no pressure and could go higher. I stopped because my target is 3050fps and I got there plus some. At this point a storm was rolling in and it was misting rain on me and the wind was really kicking up, so I loaded up 3 at 31.5gns and sent them to the target. That group can be seen in the middle left of the big target. 2 together and one high for a 0.5" group but I think it'll settle in and shoot just like 29gns did. I was rushed at that point and the wind was getting bad. I also think I may have had an issue with one of the shots, cause the magnetospeed reported 3075, 3075, 3040fps. Wind shaking the truck may have thrown my scale off on one of those charges.

I'm a very happy boy right now. WOW!

 

[duanepa]

Looks like it is getting crazy good! You can mess with your seating depth since you are jumping quite a ways...Maybe it just likes it where you are? I rarely seat that low, but hey, you shot a dot!

 

[Evan]

Looks like it is getting crazy good! You can mess with your seating depth since you are jumping quite a ways...Maybe it just likes it where you are? I rarely seat that low, but hey, you shot a dot!

I'm very excited. I've shot a couple 0.09" groups at 100 yards with the old barrel: a 22-250 shooting 52gn Sierras. This group just nudges those out as the smallest I've ever shot and I'm really excited about it. I'm going out again Sunday and will try 300 or 600, depending on where the cows are out on the grasslands.