Help diagnosing low shots at 600yds
- Thread starter VA_XTC_Shooter
- Start date
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Either:
I love when sling shooters start talking about sorting brass for mid range.
That target is big, brass isn't making you shoot outside of the X-ring. I used to shoot LC brass in my F-TR 223. I shot mixed yr LC brass from the 90s until about 2 yrs ago. I didn't sort or weight anything. I could and did clean 600 yd F-Class targets.
It's not the brass.
edit: water. I see the comment below that there is wet tumbling done. Once upon a time I used to use an ultrasonic. Got some cases that I would have sworn were dry. (in an oven for a while at over 200 degrees). Ended up with a batch of loaded rounds that a % would not make it to the targets at 1000 yds.
- you pulled the shots
- you didn't get enough powder
- your optic mount is loose
- your optic is bad
I love when sling shooters start talking about sorting brass for mid range.
That target is big, brass isn't making you shoot outside of the X-ring. I used to shoot LC brass in my F-TR 223. I shot mixed yr LC brass from the 90s until about 2 yrs ago. I didn't sort or weight anything. I could and did clean 600 yd F-Class targets.
It's not the brass.
edit: water. I see the comment below that there is wet tumbling done. Once upon a time I used to use an ultrasonic. Got some cases that I would have sworn were dry. (in an oven for a while at over 200 degrees). Ended up with a batch of loaded rounds that a % would not make it to the targets at 1000 yds.
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memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
It's possible... but as someone who has hand-primed - with a single load tool like the K&M or Sinclair - many thousands of rounds of match ammo, I've never seen it happen personally.
I'm guessing you're going to be paying *very* close attention to your 600yd ammo process for a while to come. In the overall scheme of things, checking the bullets for the relatively few rounds that you actually need for 600 in a match isn't that huge of a deal.
paperpuncher
Gold $$ Contributor
OP do you wet tumble of ultrasonic clean your brass? Any possibility moisture in the case when you loaded? Just a thought.
You read my mind.
My other thought is consistency.
Just as the shooter is on target consistently, its possible to be shanking consistently.
Yes there could be an issue in your form that as a shooter doing the shooting dont recognize.
Maybe have another good shooter preferably someone who is a better shot watch you picking apart your form.
Sometimes we all need a lil coaching.
Ask me how I know!
VA_XTC_Shooter
Silver $$ Contributor
I wet tumble and anneal after so no water from there. However, I do rinse lube off after resizing, so I guess it could be a possibility but I stored brass before priming and loading.
I am thinking I either had bad primers or somehow contaminated the three.
VA_XTC_Shooter
Silver $$ Contributor
Had a very experienced shooter watching as i shot all of these. I could see shanking in the 8 or even 7, but not out of the black. A shot that low would’ve been obvious in the optic, no?
I couldn't tell you as I'm willing to bet your a better shot than me.
I do know we always look at our gear, but never ourselves.
During my time as a competitive archer I was shooting in the Oregon state indoor championships, second day of event after finding out I was in 2nd place with a real good lead on 3rd my nerves got to me.
Shanked my first 3 shots, all at 5:00 off target completely dropping 15 points.
I managed to meak out a 3rd place, but only by an X count of 2.
That's a logical enough thing to pursue a bit more. New primers, test only that load and only at 600 and see what you get. Might be that the primer selected is not doing the deed reliably causing a long time between sear disengagement and bullet exit leaving just enough time for follow-through that's normally sufficient to become insufficient.
VA_XTC_Shooter
Silver $$ Contributor
I normally first blame me. In fact, I have done that multiple times in the past when it was gun (float tube came loose, scope was acting up, etc.). The shooter that was watching me shoot was the one that has pushed me in the past to look beyond me and not be afraid to question equipment. Given the improvements I have made over the past couple years, I have become quite confident in my abilities and ability to recognize when it is me. It still is me in offhand. And actually, I can point to me when I pushed a 9 out as well. Just hard to explain, but these shots just didnt fit that bill.
VA_XTC_Shooter
Silver $$ Contributor
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
I tend to agree that if it was out of the black an experienced shooter would know something went wrong.
I would not discount the possibility that annealing didn't get the last drop of water out of every case.
I have twice had shots fall out of the bottom far beyond where I could have shot them. Once was as noted above when the cases ended up having water left from an ultrasonic, and the other I dropped a bullet in a tray of charged cases, I thought I pulled out all of the ones that spilled powder. I dropped a 6 o'clock 8 mid string shooting F-TR, obviously I missed one.
I've had a partial case head separation that still went in the 9 ring on an F class target.
I have had primers that didn't go off, and I've had primers that gave me an obvious click-bang hesitation, which isn't a huge deal in F class but would be really bad in a sling. But it was pretty obvious when I was getting the hang fires. When you hear the hammer/firing pin fall like a dry fire the instant before the BANG! When I've tested primers for precision in my F class rifles the difference has always been in the range of an inch or less at 600 yards, not a foot.
I would not discount the possibility that annealing didn't get the last drop of water out of every case.
I have twice had shots fall out of the bottom far beyond where I could have shot them. Once was as noted above when the cases ended up having water left from an ultrasonic, and the other I dropped a bullet in a tray of charged cases, I thought I pulled out all of the ones that spilled powder. I dropped a 6 o'clock 8 mid string shooting F-TR, obviously I missed one.
I've had a partial case head separation that still went in the 9 ring on an F class target.
I have had primers that didn't go off, and I've had primers that gave me an obvious click-bang hesitation, which isn't a huge deal in F class but would be really bad in a sling. But it was pretty obvious when I was getting the hang fires. When you hear the hammer/firing pin fall like a dry fire the instant before the BANG! When I've tested primers for precision in my F class rifles the difference has always been in the range of an inch or less at 600 yards, not a foot.
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I think XTR has treed the critter
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
That sir separates you from most I meet on the range!
VA_XTC_Shooter
Silver $$ Contributor
That sir means that
(I )believe XTR has pin pointed the cause for the errant shots
VA_XTC_Shooter
Silver $$ Contributor
gotcha, misunderstood your point. Thought you were saying something else other than primer, which I too though was the forming consensus.
Might not be bad primer or even wet brass, just burs in the flash hole. Better start deburring all you gas gun brass
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